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Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

reuters.com

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Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#451

Post by dsfyu404ed »

untog wrote: post #311

This opens up an interesting question going forward. We can't rely on Uber themselves to analyse the telemetry data and come to a conclusion, they're biased. So really, we need self driving car companies to turn over accident telemetry data to the police. But the police are ill equipped to process that data. We need law enforcement to be able to keep pace with advances in technology and let's face it, they're not goi…

How about we wait for the problem to present it and actually cause harm before we throw law enforcement, government regulation, a regulatory body, etc at it?

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#453

Post by UncleEntity »

A while back I was riding my bicycle home from work and saw one of the Uber robocars coming the other direction while I was making a left turn so decided to test their reaction algorithm by starting my turn while they were still approaching -- car didn't even flinch while a human driver would've at the very least honked at me.

As an aside, I've also been hit in a bike lane in Tempe by a human driver unfortunately, if it were a robocar I'd be living on the beach somewhere off the settlement check.

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#454

Post by burlesona »

rockarage wrote: post #369
jdietrich wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a very bad look; the whole point of self-driving cars is that they can react to unexpected circumstances much more quickly than a human operator, such as when someone walks out into the road. Some of these accidents are unpreventable by the (autonomous) driver. If a pedestrian suddenly rushes out into the street or a cyclist swerves into your path, the deciding factor is often simply the coefficient of frict…

> If a pedestrian suddenly rushes out into the street or a cyclist swerves into your path, the deciding factor is often simply the coefficient of friction between your tyres and the road. This only true for the uninitiated, never let it get to that. I drove for Uber/Lyft/Via in New York city so I can experience and study these situation. These sort of accidents are preventable. The following is the basic: 1.) Drive m…

You're making an observation about what it's like in an urban area. Sadly, in a suburban area like Tempe the presence of any pedestrian anywhere is unexpected.

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#455

Post by nopriorarrests »

I wonder how this will be treated legally.

Police can't just write "killed by python script" as a cause of death, that would be crazy, and there is no legal framework for cases like that. My guess is that A.I. could be equated to cruise-control, meaning person behind the wheel is responsible.

Maybe someone knows better?

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#456

Post by pps43 »

orbitur wrote: post #421
IgorPartola wrote: post #390

This is what's going to happen. If you've ever seen a machine learning algorithm in action, this isn't surprising at all. Basically, they'll behave as expected some well known percentage of the time. But when they don't, the result will not be just a slight deviation from the normal algorithm, but a very unexpected one. So we will have overall a much smaller number of deaths caused by self driving cars, but ones that…

> I won't be surprised if someone at some point wears a stripy outfit, and the car thinks they are a part of the road, and tries to explicitly chase them down until they are under the wheels. Or if the car suddenly decides that the road continues at a 90 degree angle off a bridge. Or that the splashes from a puddle in front is actually an oncoming car and it must swerve into the school kids crossing the perpendicular…

> Are you working on the next season of Black Mirror?

In Black Mirror, all cars in the world will simultaneously swerve into nearby pedestrians, buildings, or other cars.

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#457

Post by ggggtez »

rjromero wrote: post #103

I’m pretty sure if Arizona’s lawmakers understood the underlying nature of machine learning and autonomous driving, they wouldn’t allow self driving cars to operate. I don’t care how good your models and data are, until you’re able to write an algorithm that can fully handle and learn from a situation it was completely unprepared for, it will always encounter edge cases like this. This is what happens when we have a…

>You need general AI before AI can drive a car

1.3 million people died in the USA from car crashes in 2017. An additional 20-50 million are injured. You don't need to be perfect, you just need to be better than the baseline.

That said, and to be fair to your feelings, Uber certainly is not better. This is a fact I'm sure lawmakers in Arizona are discussing right now.

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#458

Post by carussell »

apeace wrote: post #366

I'm really shocked at the trend in comments here. Yes, we get it. Fatalities will happen sometimes, they are unavoidable sometimes, and what matters in the long run is if we can achieve a significant overall reduction in fatalities. But my god, a person was just killed by a computer. Can't we have some compassion and humility? Let's, as a community, set the standard for how we will react to these events. Let's make s…

While you're admonishing people for their comments and employing stealth implicature like, "let's make sure Uber releases detailed data", do you think that maybe you should include a prominent notice disclosing your (and your former colleagues') ties to the industry that Uber is operating in—most importantly as a competitor?

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#459

Post by wlll »

alyx wrote: post #393
apeace wrote: post #366

I'm really shocked at the trend in comments here. Yes, we get it. Fatalities will happen sometimes, they are unavoidable sometimes, and what matters in the long run is if we can achieve a significant overall reduction in fatalities. But my god, a person was just killed by a computer. Can't we have some compassion and humility? Let's, as a community, set the standard for how we will react to these events. Let's make s…

I find what might help those that quote statistics is to self-reflect and ask the question, how would you react if your father/mother/sister/son/daughter/etc was the victim? Would you care that statistically self-driving cars have killed less people than human drivers?

> …statistically self-driving cars have killed less people than human drivers?

I realise that the point you're making is about emotional turmoil and not really statistics, but it looks like so far Uber aren't doing so well in terms of driving safety:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16620736

So yeah, if it turned out that Uber were sending cars out into the world without sufficient engineering or testing* and they killed someone (especially someone I know) then I would be understandably furious.

* In order to get to market sooner? I don't trust Uber and I wouldn't put this past them. Nothing I have seen of the Uber self-driving car program makes me want to be anywhere near one on a road.

Re: Self-driving Uber car kills Arizona woman crossing street

#460

Post by danso »

apeace wrote: post #366

I'm really shocked at the trend in comments here. Yes, we get it. Fatalities will happen sometimes, they are unavoidable sometimes, and what matters in the long run is if we can achieve a significant overall reduction in fatalities. But my god, a person was just killed by a computer. Can't we have some compassion and humility? Let's, as a community, set the standard for how we will react to these events. Let's make s…

I'm far from being an Uber-supporter here but I think you're overreacting. As others have pointed out, this story is only relevant to HN (and to the national media at large) because it involves Uber and AV, not because it involved a pedestrian dying. It makes sense that the discussion centers around policy and systems since few people here can claim to have even known the victim. Nor does participating in this discussion preclude anyone from going to the victim's Facebook page/funeral and expressing condolences.
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