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To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

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Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#101

Post by brerlapn »

djrogers wrote: post #94
muro wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google tells you regularly that you have it enabled - you get emails with your full history. How would anyone not know it's recorded?

I’ve never once received, nor heard anyone else who’s received such an email. Are my family and friends the anomaly or are you?

Replying to cbr/muro - those are emails about specific people that you have allowed to see your location data. The NC police are getting warrants for everyone in an area's location data. It doesn't matter if you've shared it - GPS, cell-tower data is passively collected by Google and then provided en masse to the police when subpoenaed. Nobody receives periodic emails from Google saying "you have your location services turned on [which we will nag the shit out of you about if you don't] and thus Google has a running log of everywhere you go [and if you happen to be in a jurisdiction that wipes it ass with the Fourth Amendment we'll also turn over all the data we've collected to the police]."

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#102

Post by wavegeek »

nkurz wrote: post #26

This is an important story, but a little difficult to summarize. Here's my attempt at an overview: 1. Google stores location history data for more of its mobile users than you might expect. The precision is greatest when GPS is on, but less precise data from cell towers and WiFi sources is used almost any time a Google app is being used on an Android or non-Android phone. There have been cases in the past where Googl…

The use of this information in the hands of the statistically incompetent will lead to miscarriages of justice and disaster. This basically institutionalizes the prosecutor's fallacy.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#103

Post by pkilgore »

pasbesoin wrote: post #68
nkurz wrote: post #26

This is an important story, but a little difficult to summarize. Here's my attempt at an overview: 1. Google stores location history data for more of its mobile users than you might expect. The precision is greatest when GPS is on, but less precise data from cell towers and WiFi sources is used almost any time a Google app is being used on an Android or non-Android phone. There have been cases in the past where Googl…

In addition to all the other, very serious concerns, I'll also ask this: How long until these records are available for subpoena, e.g. in a divorce case? (Maybe -- hopefully! -- not in area sweeps, but nonetheless, where was the other party and who was in proximity. As I'm writing this, well, maybe they will ask for all connections in proximity, that list then to be whittled down to a list of candidates (per the poli…

> How long until these records are available for subpoena, e.g. in a divorce case?

I see nothing preventing this information being sought in U.S. discovery right now--at least in Federal litigation[0]. That isn't to say that the subpoena won't be squashed by a court for one of the traditional rationales under FRCP 26(b).[1]

>When are police going to start sweeping such data up en masse, looking for e.g. parole violations?

Arguably runs afoul of the particularity requirement of the fourth amendment, although I do not pretend to be an expert on criminal law. That said, I understand the fourth amendment to be a low bar these days.

> When will every "free association" be a tracked association?

Rhetorical question?

[0] Your specific example, divorces, are state law in the US. I don't do that, and the relevant laws / cases can change on a state-by-state basis.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_26

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#105

Post by thinkingemote »

jonathanyc wrote: post #74
inetknght wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now sit back and think about what else people get called paranoid for.

Every time this happens, the same people magically transform from saying “What, are you paranoid?” to “What, are you naive?” The NSA’s surveillance dragnet is a very different situation because they are a government agency, but you could see the same exact phenomenon happened when the Snowden revelations came out. “Do you really think the government cares enough to log all your phone calls? You must be paranoid.” bec…

I think both reactions are for psychological comfort. It is that it's comforting if someone else is in charge, in control in the face of chaos, and it's comforting to place trust in those above you and thus happily mock conspiracy theories.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#106

Post by pkilgore »

cornholio wrote: post #19

In principle and with some caveats, I support this use of tracking information: it's usually quite specific, it has a very positive efect for law enforcement, it's not a breach of fundamental rights of the suspect as confirmation of the physical location at a certain time is not secret and can be obtained by the police from CCTV cameras, eyewitnesses etc. The privacy of the bystanders is not significantly reduced if…

That 'regulation' is the fourth amendment to the U.S. Constitution and the 200+ years of accumulated case law describing what is and is not appropriate.

Individual notions of fundamental rights aside, very recent cases have addressed protection given to location information: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-1259.pdf

A very, very related case to the article above is currently pending a decision by the Supreme Court: https://www.oyez.org/cases/2017/16-402

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#107

Post by [deleted] »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #93
notahacker wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law enforcement can triangulate location from a mobile phone signal via your celluar network provider with or without Google's help, and has been able to do so since the very beginning.

Bingo, knowing the location of each phone at all times is intrinsic to how the cellular network works. The interesting question here is why law enforcement is going to Google instead of the cellular network providers directly? By definition, they're missing out on data from all non-Android phones.

[deleted]

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#108

Post by ChaseT »

dwaltrip wrote: post #90
petilon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You live in Los Angeles (according to Google). How will GDPR help you? Companies such as Google and Facebook aren't going to implement European laws for their American customers!

Laws are ideas, and ideas spread. Hopefully it affects U.S. policy in the next decade or so. P.S. I'm curious how you found my city. LinkedIn?

I'm not the original commenter, but I could find it by getting your name from Github, then googling it. Your LinkedIn was the first result, and there was LA.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#109

Post by lemming »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #93
notahacker wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law enforcement can triangulate location from a mobile phone signal via your celluar network provider with or without Google's help, and has been able to do so since the very beginning.

Bingo, knowing the location of each phone at all times is intrinsic to how the cellular network works. The interesting question here is why law enforcement is going to Google instead of the cellular network providers directly? By definition, they're missing out on data from all non-Android phones.

From the top comment here: The precision is greatest when GPS is on, but less precise data from cell towers and WiFi sources is used almost any time a Google app is being used on an Android or non-Android phone.

I haven't read the original article since the website doesn't work without off-domain scripts running, but I assume that's why - they do have data for iOS users running Google apps, and that data is often higher resolution than cell tower triangulation. I'd also assume they're getting the cell information as well and correlating the two.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#110

Post by yorby »

pmoriarty wrote: post #97
dwaltrip wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit. So my paranoia about turning off Google location tracking was completely well-founded, and way more quickly than I would have hoped. GDPR can't come soon enough...

I've taken to just not carrying a cell phone with me, or just keeping it off. I don't really need it most of the time, and I find the sense of privacy liberating.

If you are traveling in a modern car, they can be pretty bad too: http://archive.is/0VUAf
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