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To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

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Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#81

Post by petilon »

dwaltrip wrote: post #48
nkurz wrote: post #26

This is an important story, but a little difficult to summarize. Here's my attempt at an overview: 1. Google stores location history data for more of its mobile users than you might expect. The precision is greatest when GPS is on, but less precise data from cell towers and WiFi sources is used almost any time a Google app is being used on an Android or non-Android phone. There have been cases in the past where Googl…

Holy shit. So my paranoia about turning off Google location tracking was completely well-founded, and way more quickly than I would have hoped. GDPR can't come soon enough...

You live in Los Angeles (according to Google). How will GDPR help you? Companies such as Google and Facebook aren't going to implement European laws for their American customers!

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#82

Post by pmorici »

user5994461 wrote: post #73
pmorici wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people might be missing the finer details of this story. This is an example of the system working the way it is supposed to. They are getting a warrant and asking for very narrowly scoped information. If you take your argument to the logical extreme then businesses shouldn't have security cameras either. No crime would ever be solved.

There can be hundreds of people in any venue. There can be more than ten thousands in a skyscraper. Everyone in an "area" is not necessarily a narrow scope.

That is why it is reviewed by a judge. No one is suggesting there is a one size fits all test. If you look at the location of the first example given in the article though it is a suburban area and only asks for records within 150 Meters for two different 1 hours period when the suspect is known to have been in the area based off video footage of the scene.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#83

Post by pmorici »

logic101010 wrote: post #79
pmorici wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police have used this sort of investigative technique for ages this is just an instance of it being applied to Google and phones. For example, Sparkfun received a subpoena[0] once and they ended up having to turn over customer details of anyone from Georgia who purchased a particular Sparkfun product that was used in some crime. Another example, we've all seen movies or heard where someone sees a vehicle that flees t…

Your DMV example is not quite the same as what is being done. If it was, it would quite probably be reasonable in the circumstances. The dragnet is every device, not just those matching a partial description of a suspect. For it to compare with your car example, the police would need to have a description of a suspect using an Android Galaxy S4 (or whatever) and then ask only for Galaxy S4 devices in the area.

They do have a description based off the security cameras of a suspect using a phone at a location at a very narrow time. Go read the warrant it says within 150 Meters of the spot the crime took place in a narrow one hour period.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#84

Post by logic101010 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #78
salad77 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone who was not in the area will be excluded from the list, therefore letting the police know where I wasn't at the time. No, at best this only shows that your google linked device (presumably a phone) did not have location information for that area at the specific time. Alternatively it suggests the device could have been switched off/disconnected from the network to hide your presence - making you really a sus…

"...Alternatively it suggests the device could have been switched off/disconnected from the network to hide your presence - making you really a suspect of interest if your name comes into the investigation for some reason..." That's really interesting. If I'm understanding you correctly, people who routinely switch off their location services, could potentially end up as suspects in crimes if they, for instance, live…

Welcome to police logic!

Sounds like you agree entirely with the poster's final comment :

"They unreasonably cast suspicion on everyone without any good basis and reverse the accepted safeguard that your guilt requires to be proven, and replace it with the idea that you require to prove your innocence."

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#85

Post by wolf550e »

codezero wrote: post #61
cornholio wrote: post #19

In principle and with some caveats, I support this use of tracking information: it's usually quite specific, it has a very positive efect for law enforcement, it's not a breach of fundamental rights of the suspect as confirmation of the physical location at a certain time is not secret and can be obtained by the police from CCTV cameras, eyewitnesses etc. The privacy of the bystanders is not significantly reduced if…

CCTV and eye witnesses can’t give you the suspect’s name and address.

CCTV and facial recognition can give you address (follow face to where they sleep). That and one of any number of databases can give you a name. Biometric national id / passport makes it all easy, but it's not a requirement.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#86

Post by notahacker »

dwaltrip wrote: post #48
nkurz wrote: post #26

This is an important story, but a little difficult to summarize. Here's my attempt at an overview: 1. Google stores location history data for more of its mobile users than you might expect. The precision is greatest when GPS is on, but less precise data from cell towers and WiFi sources is used almost any time a Google app is being used on an Android or non-Android phone. There have been cases in the past where Googl…

Holy shit. So my paranoia about turning off Google location tracking was completely well-founded, and way more quickly than I would have hoped. GDPR can't come soon enough...

Law enforcement can triangulate location from a mobile phone signal via your celluar network provider with or without Google's help, and has been able to do so since the very beginning.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#87

Post by joering2 »

petilon wrote: post #81
dwaltrip wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit. So my paranoia about turning off Google location tracking was completely well-founded, and way more quickly than I would have hoped. GDPR can't come soon enough...

You live in Los Angeles (according to Google). How will GDPR help you? Companies such as Google and Facebook aren't going to implement European laws for their American customers!

VPN settings - location - Europe - Germany.

GDPR enabled.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#88

Post by joering2 »

dwaltrip wrote: post #51
inetknght wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now sit back and think about what else people get called paranoid for.

Ehh. I am using the term paranioa a bit loosely. Post-snowden, it really wasn't very far fetched at all. But still upsetting.

Any reliable source of your allegation that all phonecalls in USA are being recorded? As far as I know such dragnet is allowed only outside of USA.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#89

Post by chmars »

joering2 wrote: post #87
petilon wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You live in Los Angeles (according to Google). How will GDPR help you? Companies such as Google and Facebook aren't going to implement European laws for their American customers!

VPN settings - location - Europe - Germany. GDPR enabled.

Not really, the GDPR is applicable to persons in the EU (not just in Europe) and not to persons using a VPN server in the EU.

Anyway, the GSPR does not ban American-style surveillance in Europe. Most European countries have used the Snowden leaks as a blueprint to increase surveillance in almost every aspect, especially online and with many related obligations for Internet companies.

Re: To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google

#90

Post by dwaltrip »

petilon wrote: post #81
dwaltrip wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy shit. So my paranoia about turning off Google location tracking was completely well-founded, and way more quickly than I would have hoped. GDPR can't come soon enough...

You live in Los Angeles (according to Google). How will GDPR help you? Companies such as Google and Facebook aren't going to implement European laws for their American customers!

Laws are ideas, and ideas spread.

Hopefully it affects U.S. policy in the next decade or so.

P.S. I'm curious how you found my city. LinkedIn?

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