Live data from Hacker News

Lead is even deadlier than was feared

theguardian.com

101–110 of 184 posts

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#101
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://newrepublic.com/article/86339/toxins-plastic-shampoo... is interesting.

Thanks for sharing, this should be required reading.

You're kind to say that, but I literally just meant it was interesting. I don't know how reliable it is. I search for things debunking the endocrine disruptor claim and found it, and it didn't ring any credibility alarm bells.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#102
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Simply put, unleaded fuel burns less smoothly than leaded and the toluene and benzene, which is added to the fuel to act as a lead substitute, burns to form what are called peroxides. Unfortunately peroxides are inherently unstable and explode, forming shock waves that cause detonation. This explains why engines designed to run on unleaded from the outset feature sophisticated knock sensors, which retard the ignitio…

Right, but that article goes on to talk about various non-lead substitutes you should add... I know why unleaded vs leaded, but there are substitutes for lead that are designed for use in classic cars but don't actually contain lead, that's what I was asking the difference of. Basically, why use actual lead in gas when lead substitute exists and is recommended for classic cars as an additive to unleaded fuel?

Have '48 Chevy - can confirm that lead-substitute exists and classic cars will run with it. I never use the car without it so its possible the stuff doesn't actually do anything.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#103
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asbestos is still manufactured and sold in some countries. Crazy I know.

As it's a naturally occuring mineral, you can't avoid it completely. https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/asbestos-found-nevada-...

San Benito Mountain in central California has naturally occurring asbestos levels that are so high that no public access was allowed for years (historically, it was a popular off-roading area). More recently, public access is allowed, but you are only permitted to visit the site 5 times per year (the BLM keeps track).

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it's a naturally occuring mineral, you can't avoid it completely. https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/asbestos-found-nevada-...

> As it's a naturally occuring mineral, you can't avoid it completely Isn't that also true of Lead?

Only until we figure out how to transmute it to gold.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As it's a naturally occuring mineral, you can't avoid it completely Isn't that also true of Lead?

Only until we figure out how to transmute it to gold.

We already know how (bombard it with Calcium-48 in a particle accelerator, or stick it in a nuclear reactor), but it’s not cost effective.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#106
post #15

"Looking back, it seems insane. Bluntly put, we took a known poison and – for three quarters of a century – used it in machines that puffed it out in breathable form. Then we drove them millions of miles a day, all over the world, regularly dosing billions of people with the toxin." We are still doing just that, even though we are using milder poisons now.

General Aviation (private planes) are STILL spewing lead into the atmosphere. It's not like they don't have the money to fix it, they just don't care about the externalities.

If you have money, you’re flying a jet or a turboprop, burning jet fuel (kerosene) which contains no lead.

Only the smallest private planes run on piston engines, whose owners don’t really have money to “fix it”, especially because FAA regulations for certification of new planes and engine designs make everything cost about 10x what it should.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#107
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is currently a strong effort to move away from leaded fuels, and multiple producers have been selected by the FAA to formulate and sell fuel blends that present the desired octane ratings and are proven safe. The fist certifications of such fuels is expected this year: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/where_we_are_now/nextgen_update/...

From the linked article, it's nice to see they moderated to a "fuel formulation change + limited engine modifications" approach. It seems unwise, chemically speaking, to expect we'll be able to find a drop in replacement that's less toxic (vs creating something that we find out is toxic in another 50 years).

Seems fatalistic to assume that getting rid of TEL will automatically mean it'll be replaced with something equally nasty, or even worse.

I don't think it's out of the question that improvements in refining technology has made it possible and economical enough to create a fuel with a high enough octane rating without resorting to TEL or other metal-organic additives. E.g. the Shell stuff that is being investigated by the FAA PAFI project is rumored to be based on super-alkylate + aromatics.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#108
post #35

What is still a safe lead blood value? And is there any merit in "chelation" therapies, as advocated on health websites, like this one, [1]? [1] https://www.livestrong.com/article/199912-what-natural-herbs...

Here is a small list of chelation agents hosted by the WHO: http://www.who.int/selection_medicines/committees/expert/18/...

I guess chelation/elimination does work if the WHO writes about it.

AFAIK lead is also stored in bones and probably within body tissues, so this might take a while.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#109
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not, insofar as lead tends to be either inspired or ingested in contaminated water. For most people, it's the former. The "oral chelators" just bind lead that is mixed in with them, stopping you from absorbing as much of it. That is, Senapati 2001 (the garlic-rat study) didn't give lead acetate in the morning and garlic in the afternoon; they intentionally mixed the two together. That is, oral intake of lead…

Just adding to your comment. Govt regulation for lead workers where I worked was about 1.4 micro mols of lead.

Which is just an arbitrary number the government came up with because zero is obviously unreasonable for lead workers..

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#110
post #21
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the poisons of today that we allow? I general, from what I've gathered, we have been replacing substances that accumulates in nature with substances that breaks down over time. So for instance, we still do allow ozone but also watch the levels to ensure they aren't too high. I know there are issues with a lot of medication as it goes out in the sewage and there's still a big question mark on the safety of so…

long-chain perfluorinated chemicals (C8 , involved in the production of teflon) see https://theintercept.com/2015/08/11/dupont-chemistry-decepti... Nictonoides in general (pesticides) are poisons, which we don't ingest directly but still spew in the environment. A poison we monitor and accumulates in the environment but don't regulate to the level it deserve given the damage it causes is of course CO2, as well as the…

It's inaccurate and misleading to call CO2 a poison in the context of climate change. Yes, it's a poison at high concentrations (as is just about everything), but the concentration required to cause climate change is way lower.
Post reply on HN