Lead is even deadlier than was feared • Hacker News Board

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#91

Post by watmough » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #82

andlier wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Simply put, unleaded fuel burns less smoothly than leaded and the toluene and benzene, which is added to the fuel to act as a lead substitute, burns to form what are called peroxides. Unfortunately peroxides are inherently unstable and explode, forming shock waves that cause detonation. This explains why engines designed to run on unleaded from the outset feature sophisticated knock sensors, which retard the ignitio…

Right, but that article goes on to talk about various non-lead substitutes you should add... I know why unleaded vs leaded, but there are substitutes for lead that are designed for use in classic cars but don't actually contain lead, that's what I was asking the difference of. Basically, why use actual lead in gas when lead substitute exists and is recommended for classic cars as an additive to unleaded fuel?

I believe that lead in petrol / gasoline still exists as there are not one but two effects from lead.

One is that lead helps promoting burning of the gasoline versus explosion or knocking.

Two is that lead is a great lubricant for the valve surfaces, preventing them eroding, leaking or sticking as they open / close. Eroding causes the engine to lose compression and efficiency, and sticking (as I have experienced first-hand) can cause a major engine failure by breaking the mechanism that opens/closes the valve.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#92

Post by allannienhuis » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #55

goldenkey wrote: post #19

I was actually pondering something related today. I worry about my cats' paws getting glass in them. Because the pavement is full of tiny pieces of glass, even worse if someone breaks a bottle outside, they won't actually vacuum and clean it up, I guess wind can help a bit..but it's just shuffling the glass around. Glass doesn't decay on a human time scale. Which brought me to the grim fact that there are so many sub…

Glass does not have to decay. It is chemically basically the same as sand. So as long as it does not have larger sharp edges, it is a normal part of nature.

yup, glass is about as inert a substance as you can get - one of the reason's it's used for containers of non-inert chemicals :)

That said, "normal part of nature" doesn't mean non-toxic. There are plenty of toxic things found lying around in nature.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#93

Post by xyzzy_plugh » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

jakobegger wrote: post #90

nerdponx wrote: post #86

Serious question: does this mean I need to start being a lot more careful about lead debris generated by hobbyist soldering?

Yes? I don't know why people still use leaded solder in the first place? I only use lead free solder for my hobby projects, and it works fine.

Because it's easier. When I started soldering, the lead-free stuff was finnicky but I had nearly no problems with leaded solder.

Regardless, you should have good ventilation when soldering. A small fan to suck smoke away, maybe even a mask, and take care to clean your hands and the area like you would any other harmful material (e.g. oil).

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#94

Post by allannienhuis » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:37 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #37

eutectic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least broken glass doesn't stay sharp for long when exposed to the elements.

How sure are you about this? The walk I had barefoot on a street in Brooklyn ended in a multitude of sharp embedded glass and other objects. And this was a clean street..without people dropping bottles on the ground constantly. EDIT: to all those downvoting me, a fucking veteran glassblower says that glass takes forever to erode.. https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-broken-glass-take-to-bre...

A nice soft forest floor described in that link is a completely different environment than an urban street/sidewalk. Glass would erode completely differently in those environments. Of course even in an urban environment the average piece of glass would still take a long long time to have its sharp edges smoothed. I can't disagree with the idea that walking around barefoot in the city is not the best idea ;P

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#95

Post by jjoonathan » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:37 PM UTC

jakobegger wrote: post #90

nerdponx wrote: post #86

Serious question: does this mean I need to start being a lot more careful about lead debris generated by hobbyist soldering?

Yes? I don't know why people still use leaded solder in the first place? I only use lead free solder for my hobby projects, and it works fine.

Flows better, cracks less, doesn't grow whiskers. On every dimension other than safety it is by far the superior product. Noticeably so, even with practice and good JBC irons. I recently made the jump to tin, so the difference is fresh in my mind.

I have a bench full of uwave equipment from the 80s on account of the price being 1/10 to 1/100 of newer equivalents -- how much of it would still be alive if they had used tin solder? Would my hobby still be economically viable? Quite possibly not.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#96

Post by EGreg » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

Are lead lined walls dangerous? I wanted to have a shed basement with lead lines walls to double as a bunker.

How does one actually get lead poisoning except thru contamination of water etc.?

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#97

Post by gambiting » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #82

andlier wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Simply put, unleaded fuel burns less smoothly than leaded and the toluene and benzene, which is added to the fuel to act as a lead substitute, burns to form what are called peroxides. Unfortunately peroxides are inherently unstable and explode, forming shock waves that cause detonation. This explains why engines designed to run on unleaded from the outset feature sophisticated knock sensors, which retard the ignitio…

Right, but that article goes on to talk about various non-lead substitutes you should add... I know why unleaded vs leaded, but there are substitutes for lead that are designed for use in classic cars but don't actually contain lead, that's what I was asking the difference of. Basically, why use actual lead in gas when lead substitute exists and is recommended for classic cars as an additive to unleaded fuel?

I suspect(and this is just my guess) that if you have a true classic that is worth millions of pounds, you don't want to risk running it on additives - so for those extremely rare occasions when you want to start the engine(car shows usually) you might as well run it on the £5/litre genuine leaded petrol.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#98

Post by code_duck » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

goldenkey wrote: post #37

eutectic wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least broken glass doesn't stay sharp for long when exposed to the elements.

How sure are you about this? The walk I had barefoot on a street in Brooklyn ended in a multitude of sharp embedded glass and other objects. And this was a clean street..without people dropping bottles on the ground constantly. EDIT: to all those downvoting me, a fucking veteran glassblower says that glass takes forever to erode.. https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-broken-glass-take-to-bre...

Depends on the environment, of course. In the ocean or Lake Superior, sharp glass gets rounded to smooth pebbles within 100 years. I’d estimate the sharp edges take 20-30 years to disappear. Sitting still on a street, of course, not much will happen.

As far as areas of expertise, I am a veteran (20 years) glassblower, but I am not an expert on how glass decays at all. I’m skilled at making it into things.

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#99

Post by justin66 » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #86

Serious question: does this mean I need to start being a lot more careful about lead debris generated by hobbyist soldering?

You should treat the lead debris you generate as any other poison. (how have you been treating it?)

As far as soldering safely, you should definitely keep in mind that your biggest health risk is inhaling burnt flux, and lead-free solder generates a lot more of that smoke. Lead-free solder is more dangerous to your health. There's some more information here (archive.org because I don't know where this is on the new Weller site): https://web.archive.org/web/20160402062321/http://www.weller...

Re: Lead is even deadlier than was feared

#100

Post by throwaway5752 » Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 3:53 PM UTC

thfaway wrote: post #83

throwaway5752 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://newrepublic.com/article/86339/toxins-plastic-shampoo... is interesting.

From that article... >measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, linked, by a sketchy and quickly refuted study, to autism. The supposed connection made a bigger impression than the refutation, and, while I didn’t actually know anyone who failed to get their children immunized for MMR, plenty of parents did refuse the shot; According to Andrew Wakefield, what he suggested was just that people use single, separate shots ins…

Andrew Wakefield is not a credible source on one single thing. Not only do you not have a source, I would want a secondary corroborating reliable source.