Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook • Hacker News Board

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#131

Post by landon32 » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 9:16 AM UTC

checkyoursudo wrote: post #117

kbaker wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you watch the video? They claimed real results helping Ted Cruz in the primaries with this sort of hyper-targeted advertising. The access they have to online data sources would absolutely be enough to start correlating things to build an individual profile. Say you can link someone's FB, Twitter, (HN?!) account posts, likes, shares, to credit card data, maybe even search keywords from shady advertisers, to vehicl…

Wait. The very same Ted Cruz who is now president of the United States of America? Impressive.

After the primaries they were hired by Trump. Trump is the president now.

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#132

Post by netsharc » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 9:42 AM UTC

mbid wrote: post #17

> Protecting people’s information is at the heart of everything we do Thanks for striking down the bad guys, Facebook, our ever vigilant guardian of personal information.

It's a fucking joke, their way of protecting is to say, "app developer, you're not allowed to do these things.". It's like a bank who leaves people's money in a field, and "protects" it by putting up a sign that says "dear visitors, you are not allowed to steal this money.".

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#133

Post by JetSpiegel » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 10:03 AM UTC

mind-blight wrote: post #123

xienze wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing they can do. Once you have access to the data it’s as good as copied.

FB would have to not give personally identifying info (PII) to the app in the first place. The main reason apps (from a user's perspective) need PII are 1) Display it to you or someone else in the app, or 2) perform a calculation or action on it (e.g. send a text to a phone number, or display an add to women age 20-28). If all I have is a user ID, FB can make it possible to do both without ever access PII. For #1: PI…

Facebook without PII is worthless. All that security is irrelevant when you can just bypass it all through the analogue hole. Chrome Headless just makes it easier.

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#134

Post by JetSpiegel » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

xienze wrote: post #101

nradov wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said the same thing about Ronald Reagan and Arnold Schwarzenegger before they were each elected as Governor of California.

They at least had charisma and decades of being beloved movie stars working in their favor.

Zuck could hire Jesse Einsenberg for the ads.

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#135

Post by jimnotgym » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 10:14 AM UTC

tener wrote: post #125

jjp wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes in that it has no consideration on when the data was captured or acquired. And there is a trickle down to anyone you have or passed the data onto.

Ok so you should take care of the data you posses now, but if you have shared the data with third party then I guess this is now their business to obey the law? I just don't see how you could possibly be forced to go and police everyone you have ever shared the data with.

I think the way GDPR could be consider retroactive is that the data you hold now is subject to the same test for explicit consent etc. as the data you collect now. So if you hold data now that was not collected in a way that is in line with GDPR you are in breach.

However if hypothetically FB sold CA some data in 2015 without their users consent then it is CA that has the problem now as it has no consent to the data, not FB

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#136

Post by jimnotgym » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 10:17 AM UTC

bklaasen wrote: post #126

jimsmart wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR will most certainly reach into US businesses as well as EU businesses. Any business collecting data on EU users will be subject to the GDPR. https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbestechcouncil/2017/12/04/ye... Though as the article points out: "There are still questions about how the EU will enforce these actions against U.S. and other multinational companies [...]"

European companies that exchange PII with US-based companies in order to provide features to their customers and value to themselves are terminating those contracts and turning to EU-based companies. Even though many US-based companies are attempting to comply with GDPR, European companies which use their services aren't prepared to take the risk of being in breach of GDPR.

Or US business are making a big show that the data is hosted within the EU in order to retain the business.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/TrustCenter/Privacy/gdpr/def...

https://thestack.com/cloud/2017/12/19/aws-opens-new-region-i...

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#137

Post by jimnotgym » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 10:31 AM UTC

jimsmart wrote: post #94

Curiously, just weeks ago, Alexander Nix (CEO of Cambridge Analytica) stated, in a letter to UK Parliament, that they gather no such information: "On 8 February 2018 Mr Matheson implied that Cambridge Analytica "gathers data from users on Facebook." Cambridge Analytica does not gather such data." Quoted from 'Letter from Alexander Nix, CEO, Cambridge Analytica, to the Chair of the Committee, 23 February 2018' (PDF),…

It is interesting to see Arron Banks (Arch Brexiteer and the money(under investigation by the Electoral Commission) behind Leave.EU) calling Nix a liar on Twitter recently.

It is alleged that Banks colluded with other pro-Brexit campaigns to spend a lot of money with a CA subsidiary. By spreading it around the groups they would have been able to breach the election spending limits. It is also alleged that the money itself came from outside the UK (which is also illegal)

It's a twisted web but here is an entry point with Carole Cadwalladr of the Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great...

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#138

Post by noio » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 10:51 AM UTC

arjunrc wrote: post #108

notatoad wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Facebook really wants to protect your personal information - it's their competitive advantage. If other companies all have your personal info too, then it's less valuable to Facebook. The last thing they want to do is let it get out. If you've decided to share your info with Facebook, well, that's on you. But Facebook isn't going to share it.

Are you serious, defending Facebook here? There can't be a single repository of online data, which by design gives the repository owner too much power and control. Blaming the users for falling for it is like saying we can't have regulation because markets can self-regulate themselves. After the last 3 years, anyone who defends Facebook comes across as disingenuous, naive or for a lack of a better word, a shill in my…

I don't think you and parent disagree. Facebook will do a good job of 'protecting' your personal data because that allows them —exclusively— to benefit from it. Though the definition of 'protecting' might differ, Facebook's might sacrifice that protection to benefit at any point. As a user, you're not in control of that transaction and will never benefit.

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#139

Post by meowface » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 11:14 AM UTC

xienze wrote: post #98

jadedhacker wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People aren't that dumb, but it is still pretty scary that he'd be able to scientifically design an electoral campaign that can be updated in real time using various FB tools. No other politician has access to power like that. I can't imagine what kind of coalition he could assemble. I don't know if it would win, but if he takes whatever position his data tells him, the only obvious thing that would sink him would be…

Zuck is a Democrat, he’d get a pass on all that, especially if it meant getting Trump out of office. Let’s not kid ourselves, hardly anyone in the media and government would make a stink about what he does with FB to get elected. This is all hypothetical of course, he has to be one of the most unlikeable people in ages, and the reception to his “I identify with you, middle Americans” tour really solidified that feeli…

Yeah, there are large numbers of billionaire CEOs with far more charisma and public support than Zuckerberg (like Mark Cuban and Elon Musk). Hate him or not (I'm in the former group), Trump also has charisma. Zuckerberg has brains but not an ounce of charisma or PR ability.

Re: Suspending Cambridge Analytica and SCL Group from Facebook

#140

Post by mjburgess » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 11:33 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #64

kbaker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I urge everyone to watch this video from Cambridge Analytica about their techniques with big data and psychographic profiling leading up to the 2016 election. Very dystopian, it almost feels like a seminar with a Bond villain. Quote from the video: > "we were able to form a model to predict the personality of every single adult in the United States of America." https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc Edit: also this article is…

So, I'm far to the left of most people, and I'm no fan of Trump, but I watched that video and I got the sense I usually get from reading about ML/big data, people seem to be selling these as more than they actually are. It almost is intuitive if not, I guess, what most people who study market research already know: you tailor your message to your audience. Even on a personal level, anyone who has navigated real life…

Yes, M.L. is always sold on the metaphor and not on the reality -- that's partly because its advocates are really unable to distinguish animal consciousness and cognition from computation.

Machine Learning models are tools for computing specific predictions. They are not thoughts, have no concepts, etc.

The model isnt what it is used for. A model isnt what it describes. The ability of an ML system predict a person's action isn't a reasoning process. A rock rolling down a hill predicts the path of water rolling down a hill. The rock isnt thinking about it.

Describing ML models as if they were cognitive gives people the impression that computers possess the relevant concepts and understanding which is why its seems scary. It's just current through a write to a fancier dial.