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GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

blog.malwarebytes.com

41–50 of 97 posts

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#41
post #37
post #21

If this actually works there has to be some huge, embarrassing vuln in Apple's Secure Enclave Processor on par with the "CTS Labs" AMD secure coprocessor hoopla that hit the news just this week.[1][2] The SEP is supposed to enforce a time delay between passcode attempts to prevent this sort of brute forcing. The timer could be defeated in older models by cutting power at just the right time, but Apple's whitepaper sa…

Time delays only provide a false sense of security. In theory I could always cut open the casing and just plug wires straight into the EMMC or whatever you have in there. Your time delay UI is useless if I just bypass your UI and wire straight into the hardware. Of course that's non-trivial EE work, but the point is it's possible, for someone with enough money and the right equipment. What would make it intractable i…

I mean, I don't think they're dumb enough to put unencrypted data out on busses that you can just probe. All the encryption is done inside the same package as the CPU; if you read the RAM or flash directly, you'll just get garbage because it's encrypted.

https://www.arm.com/products/security-on-arm/trustzone is the generic version of this, no idea what exactly Apple is doing.

Anyway, to break the encryption involves finding bugs in the software that runs in the secure zone (the same way you'd defeat a time delay in a networked application) or by opening up the CPU die and figuring it out with an electron microscope (perhaps while the CPU is running).

Ultimately, software is going to be the productive attack vector. While the TrustZone docs emphasize "small" for the amount of code that runs in the secure zone, no programmer can ever do "small" on a deadline and so I wouldn't trust it to provide any actual security. But the hardware infrastructure is there to be pretty secure against any adversary that doesn't have a lot of time or money, if the programmers do their job correctly. (I don't trust it because of the time schedules involved for these SoCs. One or two a year, with a lifetime of maybe a couple years. Nobody is going to spend the money to do the hard work like looking for bugs just so that someone can't rip Netflix video feeds. The engineering work would be more expensive than whatever their contract with the DRM vendors says they have to pay if they get hacked, which is the only incentive to be secure... and I doubt Apple would sign one of those.

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#42
post #37
post #21

If this actually works there has to be some huge, embarrassing vuln in Apple's Secure Enclave Processor on par with the "CTS Labs" AMD secure coprocessor hoopla that hit the news just this week.[1][2] The SEP is supposed to enforce a time delay between passcode attempts to prevent this sort of brute forcing. The timer could be defeated in older models by cutting power at just the right time, but Apple's whitepaper sa…

Time delays only provide a false sense of security. In theory I could always cut open the casing and just plug wires straight into the EMMC or whatever you have in there. Your time delay UI is useless if I just bypass your UI and wire straight into the hardware. Of course that's non-trivial EE work, but the point is it's possible, for someone with enough money and the right equipment. What would make it intractable i…

One of the points of having a secure enclave is that it can enforce things like time delays. I doubt that the time delay in question is only enforced by the UI outside the enclave.

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#43
Can GreyKey or anything else really bypass the unlock attempt counter of an iPhone set to erase itself after 10 unsuccessful attempts? Have they found a way to replace the firmware that executes that erase procedure? In that case, only password complexity can save you. But no evidence is shown that proves they can accomplish this.

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#44
post #4

How much bounty would Apple pay, say if somebody steals one and sends it to them? Is it illegal to them to make such an offer?

Well in most places, theft is illegal. On the other hand, perhaps Apple could secretly partner with a law enforcement team and purchase one for themselves. $15k and $30k are literally nothing to Apple with their warchest in the tens of billions.

Hundreds of billions

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#45
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cops have never heard that one before.

It's a realistic point though. Illegal industrial espionage definitely happens and with the resources of a huge multinational corporation it becomes easier to conceal behind a wall of secrecy and misdirection. I doubt Apple would do it, but it also wouldn't surprise me and they definitely could . All they have to do is discretely obtain the device in question and have a few good engineers quietly pick it apart for a…

Is this not automatically illegal under the DMCA? Well, assuming the company in question is based in the US.

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse, since this attack doesn't require root privileges to run!

sure, but it does require physical access for at least a couple hours, up to multiple days, if you don't use a predictable pincode. And from what I gather it doesn't even threaten a passphrase.

It supposedly threatens 6 digit passcodes, the default that 99.9% of iOS users will use. And the whole point of a passcode is to protect against physical access.

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#47
post #37
post #21

If this actually works there has to be some huge, embarrassing vuln in Apple's Secure Enclave Processor on par with the "CTS Labs" AMD secure coprocessor hoopla that hit the news just this week.[1][2] The SEP is supposed to enforce a time delay between passcode attempts to prevent this sort of brute forcing. The timer could be defeated in older models by cutting power at just the right time, but Apple's whitepaper sa…

Time delays only provide a false sense of security. In theory I could always cut open the casing and just plug wires straight into the EMMC or whatever you have in there. Your time delay UI is useless if I just bypass your UI and wire straight into the hardware. Of course that's non-trivial EE work, but the point is it's possible, for someone with enough money and the right equipment. What would make it intractable i…

You misunderstand the SEP. It contains an externally unreadable private key baked in at manufacturing time that encrypts protected data. Your "wires" would read garbage. The iOS security white paper is worth a read.

Perhaps a nation-state actor could shave down the processor and read that key with a SEM or some crazy thing, but that's literally how far the design is supposed to have pushed iOS security. Which is what makes this hack so embarrassingly bad (if confirmed).

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#48

However, it does mean that an iPhone’s security cannot be ensured if it falls into a third party’s hands. That was and will always continue to be true. Even secure cryptoprocessors of the type used in smartcards and HSMs can be cracked with enough determination and time. There are companies in China who will read and clone them for surprisingly little money. It has always amused me somewhat how scared (or the impress…

>or even better --- not leaving your brain at all. The faintest of ink will outlast the best of memory, or something like that.

"A dull pencil is better than the sharpest mind."

Thats the way I've always heard it.

Re: GrayKey iPhone unlocker poses serious security concerns

#50
post #31

> An iPhone typically contains all manner of sensitive information: account credentials, names and phone numbers, email messages, text messages, banking account information, even credit card numbers or social security numbers. All of this information, even the most seemingly innocuous, has value on the black market My phone has no banking information, credit card information, Social Security numbers, or email account…

If you're not trusting your phone, is there a different kind of computing device that you trust?
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