China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains • Hacker News Board

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#481

Post by emodendroket » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:24 AM UTC

jimmywanger wrote: post #480

emodendroket wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps double-replying is bad form but this is still bothering me. Soviets may have deployed the issue cynically, but black people really were being lynched, it really did compromise America's moral leadership on human rights, and embarrassment over the issue was a significant part of what spurred the federal government to begin to intervene. To the extent that you, as I do, view the creation of a relatively plurali…

> The idea that the Russians invented rejecting someone's argument on the grounds that the person making the argument is a hypocrite strikes me as rather unlikely. That is definitely exactly what happened. We would say something about them invading Afghanistan or forcibly making satellite states in the Warsaw pact, and they would instantly come back with "Well, we're not the ones lynching black people." It's remarkab…

I do not claim that that did not happen; rather, what I claim is that there is nothing uniquely Russian about saying "what right do you have to criticize us by a standard which you yourself do not uphold?"

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#482

Post by hueving » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:24 AM UTC

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #423

hannasanarion wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could they? Americans are too paranoid to allow an ID card, much less a centrally tracked loyalty-points number to use at party-owned shopping, transit, utility, housing....

In the US there are mandatory Social Security numbers; one needs photo ID to do much of anything; and there certainly are credit scores.

The large population of undocumented immigrants begs to differ.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#483

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:27 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #482

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US there are mandatory Social Security numbers; one needs photo ID to do much of anything; and there certainly are credit scores.

The large population of undocumented immigrants begs to differ.

And homeless people who have lost IDs etc yet fail to promptly die and find ways to even get online.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#484

Post by sooheon » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:30 AM UTC

hannasanarion wrote: post #369

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. But I worry the West will be watching this closely to see how they might implement something similar.

How could they? Americans are too paranoid to allow an ID card, much less a centrally tracked loyalty-points number to use at party-owned shopping, transit, utility, housing....

Heard of the no fly list?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#485

Post by mirimir » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:34 AM UTC

woolvalley wrote: post #478

mirimir wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever you think the West is doing is not even close to this. That is indeed true. But then, cultures of China and the West are very different. Judging either by the standards of the other is bound to be contentious. Also, there's arguably some observer bias in the West's pride. Changes in the US after 9/11 were dramatic ! What if radical Islamic fundamentalists had done a better job? More waves of attacks, soon…

This person is a chinese expat, with a chinese passport. I think he knows the difference. And you only have to look to the rest of asia to see in this case, it's not a difference of 'culture'.

I'm not disagreeing that there's a difference. I'm saying that it'd be odd if there weren't a difference. Also, it's not useful to lump China with Asia overall.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#486

Post by stale2002 » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:44 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #300

Slansitartop wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Btw, regarding China, let's cut it some slack. No, let's not "cut it some slack" on human rights abuses in the making.

If the cure is the usual "bomb them to democracy", I'll take the abuses...

No. The cure is to not lie to ourselves. They have significant problems. And anyone who tries to pretend those problems are not real, is an idiot.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#487

Post by rorykoehler » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:53 AM UTC

hueving wrote: post #482

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US there are mandatory Social Security numbers; one needs photo ID to do much of anything; and there certainly are credit scores.

The large population of undocumented immigrants begs to differ.

How many have a bank account?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#488

Post by chrischen » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:57 AM UTC

So they habe a nationalized yelp for people. If you’ve lived in China you’ll kmow there’s a big problem with corruption at higher levels and simply bad interpersonal behavior at lower levels (things like discourteousness and cutting in line).

Whether you agree or disagree with the implementation, some sorry of wuantified karma system is probably ne essary to keep people in line.

This is no different from privatized US credit system or a social shaming system (Chinese wouldn’t respond to shaming), except that this is implemented in a very Chinese way of being nationalized instead of privatized.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#489

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 3:58 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#490

Post by emodendroket » Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 4:06 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #485

woolvalley wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This person is a chinese expat, with a chinese passport. I think he knows the difference. And you only have to look to the rest of asia to see in this case, it's not a difference of 'culture'.

I'm not disagreeing that there's a difference. I'm saying that it'd be odd if there weren't a difference. Also, it's not useful to lump China with Asia overall.

China is, historically speaking, the most influential country in East and Southeast Asia, as evidenced by the fact that Korea, Japan, and Vietnam all use or used a script derived from Chinese characters and that there is a large Chinese diaspora in even more countries in the region. On what basis would we consider China an outlier? Just the post-war era? Despite ambitions to do so the CCP did not exactly sweep away Chinese culture as it existed prior to the ascendance of Mao.