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Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#11

Post by simonh »

kldavis4 wrote: post #7
DoubleCribble wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so long ago, it was scientific dogma that all life on this planet was dependent upon photosynthesis. Then some oceanographer types sent some cameras down to the sea floor to look at some hydrothermal vents and... there went that idea! Is our universe tuned for life or is life tuned to its universe?

That would be a great comparison if the many worlds hypothesis were proven or even provable. As it stands, it is basically just a belief which is held to explain the scientific facts. Not much different from ancient man's belief that spirits had influence over the weather cycle. Check out https://strangenotions.com/flew/

Many worlds is an interpretation of quantum uncertainly, but what we seem to be talking about here are multiverse theories.

One of these, M-Theory is an extension of string theory and is the only theory known to elegantly unify quantum mechanics with general relativity's gravitational force in a mathematically consistent way. It’s not supported by experimental evidence yet, but I’d hardly characterise it as no different from belief in spirits.

Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#12

Post by natch »

It brings to mind the sentient mud puddle.

If a mud puddle were sentient, it might marvel at how the mud around it was so perfectly shaped so as to exactly match the shape of the water the puddle was made up of. Amazing. Unbelievable. Couldn't be a coincidence, that there's such a perfect fit. What are the chances that this unique shape of the water outline would be matched exactly by the shape of the mud around it. A true miracle, it might think.

Unless the sentient puddle gave the matter just one more moment's thought, in which case it might conclude that the water and the shape of the mud around it matched for no reason other than that the water flowed to fit the mud.

Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#13

Post by lopmotr »

I didn't get through the whole thing, but if there are big meteor impacts, wouldn't we see them on other planets in the solar system? They mention Hale-Bop for instance. Surely we can work out a probability distribution from the evidence we have besides Earth.

Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#14

Post by 8bitsrule »

Kind of ironic to think that humans survived a million-year ice age, then might be destroyed by some fool with a button.

If 'our universe' is 'tuned for life', it certainly isn't specifically tuned for human life (e.g. plague, volcanos). Nature offers us no guarantees. Unless we stay in tune with that accord, we will be removed.

Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#15

Post by dougdonohoe »

I can't help but think of what the 17 families in Parkland, Florida would think of this article. Especially this quote:

“This is a defense against instantaneous, violent death, which you will find was avoided, but anything that sort of maims or injures or mangles you or whatever is still fair game.”

Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#16

Post by kldavis4 »

simonh wrote: post #11
kldavis4 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a great comparison if the many worlds hypothesis were proven or even provable. As it stands, it is basically just a belief which is held to explain the scientific facts. Not much different from ancient man's belief that spirits had influence over the weather cycle. Check out https://strangenotions.com/flew/

Many worlds is an interpretation of quantum uncertainly, but what we seem to be talking about here are multiverse theories. One of these, M-Theory is an extension of string theory and is the only theory known to elegantly unify quantum mechanics with general relativity's gravitational force in a mathematically consistent way. It’s not supported by experimental evidence yet, but I’d hardly characterise it as no differ…

Actually, I _am_ referring to 'many worlds' (at least according to the technical explanation in this article: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2011/05/26/...) and not a multiverse. And yes, there is some hope that there will be some testable empirical evidence at some point, but if in the end it turns out that there are not 'many worlds', then I don't see that big a difference. I'd love it if there were parallel dimensions but it is fantasy at this point.

Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#18

Post by burnte »

dougdonohoe wrote: post #15

I can't help but think of what the 17 families in Parkland, Florida would think of this article. Especially this quote: “This is a defense against instantaneous, violent death, which you will find was avoided, but anything that sort of maims or injures or mangles you or whatever is still fair game.”

On the macro scale, he's right. On the human scale, however, your number could be up any second. When I get into debates with people about security and the erosion of rights under the guise of security, I'll eventually say, "You can only be so safe. In the end a determined killer WILL kill someone, even if it's only by biting them to death. There WILL be successful terror attacks. There WILL be random attacks of violence, the question is, how much freedom do I want to lose before I realize that there will always be danger in the world?" That makes people feel I'm a nihilist or something, but it's the truth. I enjoy living, I Want safety for people, but we can't wrap the world in Nerf. Life is a trap no one gets out of alive. If you're alive today, you're lucky nothing killed you along the way, enjoy it while you can. With stuff like the Florida school shooting, we should absolutely do something about guns and gun culture because it's needlessly killing kids. But making me take off y belt at the airport isn't saving anyone, or worse, saying the TSA /customs/the gov't in general should have the right to my passwords to get into my computer because "if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to hide" is absolutely terrifying and wrong.

Re: Why Earth's History Appears So Miraculous

#19

Post by bobthechef »

kldavis4 wrote: post #3

Many worlds hypothesis is the atheistic solution to the observation that our universe appears to be tuned for life.

Sure, that's the motivation some atheists have in believing or at least entertaining the idea of a multiverse, but ultimately, it does relatively little to advance atheism, and not just because of its intractability. Fine tuning is an interesting thing to ponder, and certainly a single universe that is finely tuned could lend some support to divine intent, but the real arguments for the existence of God do not hinge on fine tuning or probabilities or any of the standard fare of young earth creationists and the like that philistines like Dawkins enjoy dumping on. The best arguments demonstrate God's existence as a necessary fact following from evident premises. (Btw, Edward Feser has recently publishes a book, "Five Proofs of the Existence of God", on the subject, selecting five that he holds to be particularly important.)
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