And again and again, we have the usual suspects doing the usual things in every single one of these type of stories - every single one. I guess dang and others are ok with it.
China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
251–260 of 602 posts
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s a white girl rap battle? I don’t remember anything like that
When she's thrown in the glass jail cell and starts hurling insults across the walkway at the random dude (and him back) rap battle style. It's the first (and only) time in the entire episode where she seems like she's actually having fun. And this is a girl who can sell the "I'm not having fun" while blitzing through the woods on a quadbike.
Ha, that's a wonderful description of that episode :).
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#253To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'
Does anyone have have the actual context of where “once untrustworthy, always restricted” is applied? It sounds like the author cherry picked the most provocative quote out of context and applied the most nefarious translation, especially since the punishments seem to be temporary according to the article.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Consider the restrictions that US law places on convicted felons. Millions of Americans have been stripped of constitutional rights, often for infractions as minor as stealing a coat or possessing half an ounce of marijuana. Felons often face considerable difficulties in finding employment and housing. "Once untrustworthy, always restricted" is a practical reality in the US.
> Felons often face considerable difficulties in finding employment and housing. This is the marketplace at work. It's not a government-imposed ban on access to public services.
Absolutely correct, and one of the reasons why I'm suspicious of attempts to grant private companies too much leeway with regards to people's livelihoods. Barring someone from working for life in professional roles - what difference is there practically, not philosophically between that and the old Soviet practice of ruining people's careers if they weren't in good standing in the Party?
The average Joe won't experience any difference. The armchair political scientist will argue it endlessly (I put myself in that category, by the way).
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
In Virginia, felony larceny starts at $200, easily within coat range. I once had jury duty and was faced with the prospect of sentencing the defendant to up to 20 years in prison for the crime of receiving stolen goods valued at least $200. I got rejected from the jury, probably because I said I couldn’t possibly consider 20 years in prison for that.
I feel like at that point, it'd be morally correct to lie to get into the jury...
My English might fail me here, but if you think about a 20 year sentence and find it not adequate to the crime, wouldn't you have "considered" it?
I can understand why the question is asked though. The jury is there to find facts, i.e. define what has happened. The judge will then find the "correct" sentence if found guilty. The jury should not be swayed to a not guilty finding if they believe a guilty would be correct, just because the possible maximum sentence is too long, even if it would not be imposed in the case at hand anyway.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
It isn't the beginning of a new caste system. It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals. (Not that I agree with Confucian philosophy) Confucian philosophy had influenced Chinese culture for several millennial, and the oral tradition was that Confucius (Kong Tzu) himself distilled what went into the Analects from much older rites and cultures. The basic idea here is that humans don't start out as…
In other words, fascism, that is, the belief that a society needs very strict moral guides and leadership to thrive.
I think there's more to fascism than that.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
The only way the marketplace can do this is with the support of the government. The government provides felony records after all.
So you think what, the courts should be secret?
Criminal background checks should be limited with regards to this criteria considered for employment.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#258To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'
Caste systems will never go away until the asymmetric advantage they endow to a majority is honestly weighed against the hidden costs of society manifesting self-fulfilling prophecies in the minority. Which way should the slippery slope slide? Should an individual’s means to succeed be the rule or an exception. That’s freedom, thats’s bravery in my eyes.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#259Not really about the article, but the amount of Whataboutism has been growing uncomfortably stronger in the comments on Hacker News.
Actions of others is not enough to justify one's self (good or bad). All these comments using Chinese/USA or Western/Eastern as their main point of argument is superfluous.
Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains
#260To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'
It isn't the beginning of a new caste system. It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals. (Not that I agree with Confucian philosophy) Confucian philosophy had influenced Chinese culture for several millennial, and the oral tradition was that Confucius (Kong Tzu) himself distilled what went into the Analects from much older rites and cultures. The basic idea here is that humans don't start out as…
I think this relates more to Chinese Legalism than Confucian ideals.
This social credit is just what the "men of methods" would prescribe replace aristocracy with a bureaucracy. You get automatic four year ban for certain services if social credit drops below certain level.