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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

211–220 of 602 posts

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#211
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Felons often face considerable difficulties in finding employment and housing. This is the marketplace at work. It's not a government-imposed ban on access to public services.

What's the difference if the effect is the same?

There are landlords who will rent to felons and employers who will hire them. It's not a blanket ban.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#212
post #9

The thing that worries me most about the autocracy in China is that all of these Orwellian measures would actually work and then would be pointed out as an example to abandon our civil liberties in favor of a system that may be big brotherly but at least "your kids will always be safe, never be close to any bad person" (By We I'm referring to Democracies). It may also be a uniquely Chinese thing too though. China has…

Also, consider the possibility that the underlying trade off is between societal coordination and efficiency vs liberties and wellbeing. Adding to “safe” also economic incentives to erode democracy with its less efficient liberties. In a similar way, corporations are more efficient than governments.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#213
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That's pure prejudice. There are lots of upper class criminals. Maybe you have heard of Elizabeth Holmes, the blonde woman in charge of Theranos? Major fraud case.

Ever heard of Aileen Wuornos? Major serial killer case. Aileen and Elizabeth are outliers. It makes sense to be surprised by it. If there's a woman and a man and someone asks you to guess the criminal, which one are you going to choose? Flipping a coin would not be a wise strategy.

"Playing the odds" is often code for justifying sexism, racism, etc. And it helps entrench it.

"Black people are often criminals and white people are not. It isn't racism. It is just playing the odds."

I find that statement pretty sickening. We have a system that often sets up certain classes of people for failure and makes it hard for them to avoid being charged, then use their inevitable failure as further justification for heaping on more mistreatment.

http://micheleincalifornia.blogspot.com/2015/04/what-fool-be...

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. Progress and upward economic development increase the faith of the public and the Communist Party rank-and-file in the Communist Party leadership. The Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth.

I think that it is really true. The CCP's implicit bargain is that it delivers perpetually increasing growth and economic prosperity to the average person (compared to last year), and the average person keeps their mouth shut. That bargain breaks down when growth stops accelerating, and obviously you can't have accelerating growth forever. The CCP's real overarching goal is to "maintain social stability," and that is…

One of the points of Xi's new dictatorship, is precisely that China can't keep the growth engines going any longer as is. They had to take on $40 trillion in debt over the last eight years to keep faking growth. Every year they 'grow' their GDP by $600 or $700 billion, they have to take on $3 to $4 trillion in new debt to do it. Their total debt to GDP ratio is now nearly the worst of any country, and it's expected to get worse by another ~75% in just the next five years.

I think Xi knows the economic party is over and that there are going to be extremely bad social consequences to that coming up. The dictatorship is meant to possess the power necessary to put down those consequences in any way they deem necessary.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#216
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If an upper-middle class blonde hair, blue eyed woman gets accused of a crime, a higher degree of people would at least give her the benefit of the doubt Which would make sense, no? They're playing the odds. It's exceedingly rare for any upper-middle class woman to commit a crime. So to be surprised by that is understandable. Take color and class out of it, you need only compare "man accused of crime" vs "woman acc…

No. That's pure prejudice. There are lots of upper class criminals. Maybe you have heard of Elizabeth Holmes, the blonde woman in charge of Theranos? Major fraud case.

[deleted]

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#217

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

The original announcement all included ways that these restrictions are lifted. Most of them are automatically lifted in 180 days or 1 year.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#219

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

Already happened with Wells Fargo, who fired and blacklisted employees that refused to create extra (illegal) accounts for their customers. Those employees couldn't get a job in finance again.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the American credit score more like “once untrustworthy, always restricted”? Most the restrictions announced by China are removed automatically in just one year.

No it isn't. While it can inconvenience you for a few years you can get it back up by simply paying your bills on time and paying down debts. Now that being the case I still don't like credit scores. You can work years, have lots of savings, pay all your bills on time, pay off cars and mortgages and have a rocking credit score. The if one medical vendor sends your $90 bill to the wrong address, you never see it, then…

Good then. Most of the restrictions mentioned in the article are automatically removed in 1 year.
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