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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#151

Post by pishpash »

jrs95 wrote: post #105
pm90 wrote: post #9

The thing that worries me most about the autocracy in China is that all of these Orwellian measures would actually work and then would be pointed out as an example to abandon our civil liberties in favor of a system that may be big brotherly but at least "your kids will always be safe, never be close to any bad person" (By We I'm referring to Democracies). It may also be a uniquely Chinese thing too though. China has…

It's a much bigger risk that the developing world will look to the Chinese model as an inspiration IMO

A way of life worthy of living is not afraid of an alternative's existence.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#152

Post by kiteracer »

awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

You can extend this metaphor to employment and job performance as well, as explored by Marshall Brain in his short story "Manna" [0]:

> You can imagine what would happen. Manna fires you because you don't show up for work a couple times. Now you try to go get a job somewhere else. No other Manna system is going to hire you. There had always been an implicit threat in the American economy -- "if you do not have a job, you cannot make any money and you will therefore become homeless." Manna simply took that threat and turned the screws. If you did not do what Manna told you to, it would fire you. Then you would not be able to get a job anywhere else.

As we get better at collecting and analyzing data on employees (a hot topic whenever tech interviews are discussed on HN), we should remember to exercise a certain amount of "social forgiveness."

[0] http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#153

Post by DamnYuppie »

echevil wrote: post #133
awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

Isn't the American credit score more like “once untrustworthy, always restricted”? Most the restrictions announced by China are removed automatically in just one year.

No it isn't. While it can inconvenience you for a few years you can get it back up by simply paying your bills on time and paying down debts.

Now that being the case I still don't like credit scores. You can work years, have lots of savings, pay all your bills on time, pay off cars and mortgages and have a rocking credit score. The if one medical vendor sends your $90 bill to the wrong address, you never see it, then they send you to collections you will watch your score crater. This is sadly what happened to me, it is rage inducing!

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#154

Post by newnewpdro »

Get ready for more China stabbing sprees [1] as the consequences of this become increasingly felt by their society. This strikes me as an obviously bad idea, but perhaps there are no good solutions with a population of that size.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chenpeng_Village_Primary_Schoo...

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#155

Post by javajosh »

RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

If anyone wants to see some of the negative effects of a persistent 'social score' that affects real life I recommend this Black Mirror episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive .

Or, a more light-hearted take, a few years before Nosedive: http://community-sitcom.wikia.com/wiki/MeowMeowBeenz

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#156

Post by scrumption »

pishpash wrote: post #122
Mvandenbergh wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been hoping for this link between freedom and economic development for years about China. It turns out that it's just wishful thinking. China is much richer and no more free than it was decades ago.

The eras of growth have been the most free in the history of China. People allowed to own land, allowed employment of their choice, allowed to move, and allowed to start private enterprises. There is a one-to-one correlation between how much people are allowed to do and ... what they do.

>most free

>People allowed to own land

Not sure the mental gymnastics you have to go through to convince yourself private ownership of land == freedom

American by chance?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#157

Post by hexane360 »

zzzeek wrote: post #51

clicked on the comments for the link here just to see all the "it's essentially the same thing here in the US!" posts and I was not disappointed. (or I was, depending on how you look at it)

So why are the analogies others have made not valid? (although I haven't found anyone saying it's "essentially the same thing")

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#158

Post by crispyporkbites »

jandrese wrote: post #84
RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

If anyone wants to see some of the negative effects of a persistent 'social score' that affects real life I recommend this Black Mirror episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive .

This is the first thing I thought of as well. Once thing I kind of liked about that episode is that it was backwards from a normal Black Mirror episode. Normally they try to make the technology look fun and useful at first before they do the flip and make it horrible and dehumanizing. This episode started out like the end of a normal episode and ended with the main character doing a white girl rap battle with some ra…

What’s a white girl rap battle? I don’t remember anything like that

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#159

Post by ufo »

daveFNbuck wrote: post #38
mLuby wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, season 3 episode 1 "nosedive"—worth the watch (on Netflix). You don't need to see any other black mirror episodes to get it. (Don't watch S1E1 1!)

> (Don't watch S1E1 1!) People always say that but it's one of the most compelling episodes.

I think telling people to avoid S1E1 is counterproductive if the alternative is to start with S1E2. I always thought that one was even more graphically disturbing.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#160

Post by desireco42 »

jdietrich wrote: post #141
awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

Consider the restrictions that US law places on convicted felons. Millions of Americans have been stripped of constitutional rights, often for infractions as minor as stealing a coat or possessing half an ounce of marijuana. Felons often face considerable difficulties in finding employment and housing. "Once untrustworthy, always restricted" is a practical reality in the US.

I was about to say the same, they are copying US because US did some great work in suppressing dissent.
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