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China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

reuters.com

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Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#111

Post by JumpCrisscross »

darawk wrote: post #100
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth But Xi Jinping does not.

Yes he does. Growth makes people wealthier, which makes them happy with the government. If China's growth stops, you better believe there will be serious civil unrest.

My point isn't that Xi Jinping doesn't want growth. It's that he doesn't want growth as badly, nor on the same time horizons, as the CCP. If he has to cause permanent harm to China's productive potential to hold on to power for a few more years, history suggests he will. This is the reason dictatorships trash countries and why Deng Xiaoping wisely implemented term limits.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#112

Post by reaperducer »

bhouston wrote: post #92
awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

Is this a Black Mirror episode?

It's the "Majority Rule" episode of The Orville:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Orville#Episodes

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#113

Post by SubiculumCode »

behindmyscreen wrote: post #101
jrs95 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a permanent thing, it's 'up to one year'. Not much different than what we have in Ohio...any drug charge and your driver's license is suspended for a minimum of 6 months. It's ridiculous, yes, but it's hardly the level of totalitarianism you're describing.

The guiding principle however appears to be "Once untrustworthy, always forbidden". That is an issue.

That seems like what happens once you have a felony in U.S.

I mean that a felony removes your right to vote, makes employment much more difficult.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#114

Post by jrs95 »

mFixman wrote: post #107
jrs95 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a permanent thing, it's 'up to one year'. Not much different than what we have in Ohio...any drug charge and your driver's license is suspended for a minimum of 6 months. It's ridiculous, yes, but it's hardly the level of totalitarianism you're describing.

There's a gigantic difference between losing your driver's license and not being allowed to take any kind of long-distance transportation.

Most of Ohio doesn't really have a good transportation alternative to driving, so it's actually pretty similar.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#115

Post by z0r »

wufufufu wrote: post #6

Soon... "Amazon to ban people with too many returns from groceries"

I was banned from Uber. I think it was after trying to cancel a pickup that failed to show up, but I can't be sure - customer support wouldn't help or tell me what happened.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#117

Post by darawk »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #111
darawk wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes he does. Growth makes people wealthier, which makes them happy with the government. If China's growth stops, you better believe there will be serious civil unrest.

My point isn't that Xi Jinping doesn't want growth. It's that he doesn't want growth as badly, nor on the same time horizons, as the CCP. If he has to cause permanent harm to China's productive potential to hold on to power for a few more years, history suggests he will. This is the reason dictatorships trash countries and why Deng Xiaoping wisely implemented term limits.

We agree then. His primary goal is likely to be to hold on to power. Growth is definitely only something he wants in service of that prime directive.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#118

Post by trendia »

hosh wrote: post #67
awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

It isn't the beginning of a new caste system. It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals. (Not that I agree with Confucian philosophy) Confucian philosophy had influenced Chinese culture for several millennial, and the oral tradition was that Confucius (Kong Tzu) himself distilled what went into the Analects from much older rites and cultures. The basic idea here is that humans don't start out as…

This is analogous to saying:

"Jesus teaches us to be moral, so the inquisition is just letting the government teach us to be more moral."

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#119

Post by jrs95 »

ams6110 wrote: post #98
jrs95 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a permanent thing, it's 'up to one year'. Not much different than what we have in Ohio...any drug charge and your driver's license is suspended for a minimum of 6 months. It's ridiculous, yes, but it's hardly the level of totalitarianism you're describing.

Yeah but losing your driver's license for a DUI or drug charge is a specific defined consequence for a specific behavior. It's not something that happens because you have crossed a line on some nebulous "social credit" scale.

A DUI is a much more serious crime. It's pretty ridiculous to have a mandatory license suspension for any quantity of marijuana possession. Regardless, what's described in this article is closer to this policy than it is to what OP described in my opinion.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#120

Post by jandrese »

iooi wrote: post #2

So if we assume they're getting their ideas from Black Mirror, how much longer until they start using humans for energy? [1] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2089049/

I don't think they were using the bikes in that episode to power some great civilization or something, just to reduce costs and more importantly to keep everyone busy.

It wasn't clear what happened in the background, but it seemed like humanity was in a prison and to keep incidents down they made them do hard labor and provided endless mindless entertainment. Probably supposed to be an allegory for 9-5 jobs. The ending suggests that the rest of the planet is alive at least. Maybe humanity was put in prison for wrecking the biosphere and they're giving the planet time to recover?

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