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A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

nytimes.com

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Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#31

Post by garmaine »

oblio wrote: post #27
caseysoftware wrote: post #3

This seems like backdoor civil asset forfeiture but it would allow them to take assets that aren't even present and/or involved at the time of the "offense". Can you see a particularly cash-strapped town telling officers to skip the Toyota Camrys and instead pull over the BMWs? It seems ideal for abuse, selective law enforcement, and likely other bad behaviors. Oddly enough, this would likely go away with self-drivin…

Are you really worried that _rich people_ are the ones that can’t protect themselves from abuse? :)

Rich and powerful are not the same thing.

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#32

Post by sebazzz »

Osiris wrote: post #21

Why not just do away with fines all together rather than trying to come up with a complex system to try to make them fair. Perhaps instead of fines a more appropriate punishment should be that you're forced to sit in your car for an hour making you late to whatever you were in a rush for.

What about people who drive hard deliberate because they can afford the fines, in their free time?

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#34

Post by deviationblue »

kosei wrote: post #11

I think I'd take the other approach than exorbitant fines for the rich. Perhaps they should grow (a $3,000 fine for a billionaire isn't unreasonable), but the more important part IMO is here: "For people living on the economic margins, even minor offenses can impose crushing financial obligations, trapping them in a cycle of debt and incarceration for nonpayment." I think it is reasonable that a speeding ticket for s…

> a $3,000 fine for a billionaire isn't unreasonable

This sounds ridiculous to me because the idea of laws, and by extension fines, is that they apply uniformly, regardless of class, gender, whatever.

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#35

Post by Yaggo »

I'm from Finland where we have this kind of "relative fines". While I generally agree with the concept, it should better take into account the household's total income & wealth.

E.g. I could get a fine of 1/2 of my monthly net income for driving 140 km/h (87 mph) on highway, which would hit hard our household (three kids, low income spouse, no savings), although no real harm or risk was caused to anyone.

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#36

Post by laci27 »

On some of Italy's highways, they calculate the speeding ticket from gate to gate:) Meaning that if you entered the highway at 12:00 and you exited at 13:00 at a gate 120 miles ahead, you get a fine.

Sometimes, I see people who like to speed, just sit it out at a parking cafe next to their exit.

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#37

Post by onion2k »

timc3 wrote: post #25
onion2k wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't see how going 14 mph with zero other damage is equivalent to compensating the public $67k. Speeding is a crime because you're risking the safety of other people. There's only "zero damage" if you're lucky. There's potential for a lot of damage. Considering the defined punishment is supposed to act as a deterrent I would argue $67k was actually too low.

Just driving at legal speeds can be a risk to. It depends pn multiple fsctors not just speed.

Those risk factors have been considered by people who are qualified to design road systems. You can't just heap additional risk on without consequences.

If I choose to drive wearing a blindfold that wouldn't necessarily mean there's any damage but it should definitely be a crime.

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#38

Post by supermatt »

deviationblue wrote: post #34
kosei wrote: post #11

I think I'd take the other approach than exorbitant fines for the rich. Perhaps they should grow (a $3,000 fine for a billionaire isn't unreasonable), but the more important part IMO is here: "For people living on the economic margins, even minor offenses can impose crushing financial obligations, trapping them in a cycle of debt and incarceration for nonpayment." I think it is reasonable that a speeding ticket for s…

> a $3,000 fine for a billionaire isn't unreasonable This sounds ridiculous to me because the idea of laws, and by extension fines, is that they apply uniformly, regardless of class, gender, whatever.

Then it could be a percentage of total assets - that would be equal, no? I do think fines are stupid though. Making people sit a day through a speed awareness course seems a better punishment to me.

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#39

Post by usrusr »

paulddraper wrote: post #2

This is already true for incarceration; a billionaire and a nurse lose the same amount of time. And one's time is paid more than the other's. Speeding is a weird example though. If I'm driving I pay based on my income, but if my driver is driving he pays based on his? > In 2015, it handed a businessman a $67,000 speeding ticket for going 14 miles per hour above the limit. I just don't see how going 14 mph with zero o…

> If I'm driving I pay based on my income, but if my driver is driving he pays based on his?

That's actually a very good point, as the "backseat speeder" would likely secretly reimburse the driver if the speeding was done to order. It would make intentional speeding surprisingly cheap for a small group.

(Disagree with everything else you wrote though)

Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding

#40

Post by gnud »

deviationblue wrote: post #34
kosei wrote: post #11

I think I'd take the other approach than exorbitant fines for the rich. Perhaps they should grow (a $3,000 fine for a billionaire isn't unreasonable), but the more important part IMO is here: "For people living on the economic margins, even minor offenses can impose crushing financial obligations, trapping them in a cycle of debt and incarceration for nonpayment." I think it is reasonable that a speeding ticket for s…

> a $3,000 fine for a billionaire isn't unreasonable This sounds ridiculous to me because the idea of laws, and by extension fines, is that they apply uniformly, regardless of class, gender, whatever.

The laws should obviously apply equally. Exactly for that reason, fines should not be the same for someone who earns $15/hr and $1500/hr. A fine of $150 is 10 hours of work for one person, and 6 minutes for the other. How is that equal application of the law?
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