Why not just do away with fines all together rather than trying to come up with a complex system to try to make them fair. Perhaps instead of fines a more appropriate punishment should be that you're forced to sit in your car for an hour making you late to whatever you were in a rush for.
A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
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Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#22This seems like backdoor civil asset forfeiture but it would allow them to take assets that aren't even present and/or involved at the time of the "offense". Can you see a particularly cash-strapped town telling officers to skip the Toyota Camrys and instead pull over the BMWs? It seems ideal for abuse, selective law enforcement, and likely other bad behaviors. Oddly enough, this would likely go away with self-drivin…
There's a big gap between a "day fine" and taking someone's house because their kid stashed some drugs in the closet.
One is proportional and happens on conviction while the other can be nuts.
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is only actual damage if you are exceptionally unlucky. Almost everyone speeds to varying degrees, with wildly successful runs of luck. Ergo, speeding is not a crime, it is an easy revenue target for greedy municipalities with overpaid cops.
Well, no, it is a crime, in every country. Even in Germany only some autobahn, and often only certain sections of those autobahn, have no speed restrictions, because the roads are of a type (wide, long, and without pedestrians, oncoming traffic, or sudden turns) that make accidents less likely.
To add to this: there was even a motion to upgrade unintentional manslaughter into murder, if speeding was intentionally (in the specific case of car races).
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#24I think I'd take the other approach than exorbitant fines for the rich. Perhaps they should grow (a $3,000 fine for a billionaire isn't unreasonable), but the more important part IMO is here: "For people living on the economic margins, even minor offenses can impose crushing financial obligations, trapping them in a cycle of debt and incarceration for nonpayment." I think it is reasonable that a speeding ticket for s…
The fines are made as a revenue source, not to disincentivize anything.
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#25This is already true for incarceration; a billionaire and a nurse lose the same amount of time. And one's time is paid more than the other's. Speeding is a weird example though. If I'm driving I pay based on my income, but if my driver is driving he pays based on his? > In 2015, it handed a businessman a $67,000 speeding ticket for going 14 miles per hour above the limit. I just don't see how going 14 mph with zero o…
I just don't see how going 14 mph with zero other damage is equivalent to compensating the public $67k. Speeding is a crime because you're risking the safety of other people. There's only "zero damage" if you're lucky. There's potential for a lot of damage. Considering the defined punishment is supposed to act as a deterrent I would argue $67k was actually too low.
Just driving at legal speeds can be a risk to. It depends pn multiple fsctors not just speed.
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#26I would love to see this happen in many places. But in the US - probably the last place it will ever happen.
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#27This seems like backdoor civil asset forfeiture but it would allow them to take assets that aren't even present and/or involved at the time of the "offense". Can you see a particularly cash-strapped town telling officers to skip the Toyota Camrys and instead pull over the BMWs? It seems ideal for abuse, selective law enforcement, and likely other bad behaviors. Oddly enough, this would likely go away with self-drivin…
Are you really worried that _rich people_ are the ones that can’t protect themselves from abuse? :)
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#28At lease some kind of mention of equality under the rule of law should be done and refuted.
The 'pain' (as in 'felt punishment') inflicted by the fine should be equal in all cases. If you have more money that means a higher fine is needed to inflict equal pain.
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#29This is already true for incarceration; a billionaire and a nurse lose the same amount of time. And one's time is paid more than the other's. Speeding is a weird example though. If I'm driving I pay based on my income, but if my driver is driving he pays based on his? > In 2015, it handed a businessman a $67,000 speeding ticket for going 14 miles per hour above the limit. I just don't see how going 14 mph with zero o…
I'm from Finland, and I think the fine system here works well. There are some crucial differences from the US system however.
First, fines don't go to the local police departments, and local municipalities don't get any financial incentive from issuing more fines. Everything goes to the state, and amount of collected fines is not related to the budgets of the police departments. This means that there are no interests for collecting more fines from any specific demographic.
Second, there are actually two levels of fines. For minor offences (like minor speeding, jaywalking, running a traffic light slightly late) you only get fixed fine. If the offence is serious enough to go to the court, then you may get day fines that are based on the income.
Also, the most extreme fines reported from Finland usually result from cases where someone has cashed nicely from selling a company or something, and because the initial amount of the fine is just based on tax information of the previous year, this may be a very high amount. In reality these fines always become lower in the court. The fines should be based on the current income by the law, and if the defendant can prove that the previous year was just an anomaly and the current income is actually lower, the amount of the fine will be reduced.
I know some wealthy people with very nice cars. They are extra careful to never speed beyond the "safe limit" because it would hurt too much if they got a fine, and instead take their cars to closed race tracks if they want to drive fast. Most people who I see speeding on the roads drive some lower-end cars like BMWs or Audis. I take their speeding as a sign that they probably have barely enough income to afford a car like that and want to show off, because if their income was actually high, they'd be more wary of the financial consequences.
Re: A Billionaire and a Nurse Shouldn't Pay the Same Fine for Speeding
#30Or just do away with the fines completely.
At least where I live, a speeding ticket knocks off a couple of your license's 12hp, and they take like a year to regenerate. Maybe that alone should be enough, or maybe you should also have to sit there one extra minute for every mph over the limit you were going.