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Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

blurbusters.com

131–140 of 145 posts

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#131

I'm looking forward to the next generation of VR headsets immensly. A lot of people have been quick to jump on the "VR is already dead" train, but having picked one up during Christmas this year, it's obvious how much potential is there. There are a few things that need to be accomplished before widespread adoption: - Removal of wires. It restricts movement too much and removes immersion. The new HTC headset is a ste…

I'm not convinced that removing sensor placement or wires is a huge problem. It's not any more involved or awkward than a big home theater setup is. As someone who has had an oculus since the consumer version was released, my main problems are: 1) Eye strain. Even though you have a 3d effect you're still looking at something a few inches from your eye and that disconnect causes eye pain and headaches after playing fo…

Eye strain will be mitigated with eye tracking and varifocal displays (https://www.roadtovr.com/oculus-research-demonstrate-groundb...), as well as higher resolution. It might still be a problem because you're still staring a screen on your face.

Locomotion is less of a problem than people who think its a problem is, and I think that stems from a lot of people in VR being hardcore gamers, and exploration of large spaces being a core mechanic and selling point for 3D video games for the last 25 years. I don't think omni-directional treadmills or vestibular stimulation or anything inconvenient like that will catch on for locomotion, and I think we'll either use various forms of teleport, or sliding (traditional 3D) locomotion for the foreseeable future, and people will mostly be ok with it. It's possible that with wireless and/or standalone headsets that redirected walking, will be a popular option. You could imagine a headset where Chaperone\Guardian builds on SLAM used for inside out tracking, and can give apps information about the layout of your house, allowing for large procedurally created virtual spaces. This still doesn't solve the problem for people that don't have medium sized private spaces to play in, and also makes it harder to do multiplayer games where players are playing in very different spaces.

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#133
post #11

For the people worrying about GPU usage, it also says "Foveated driving logic for VR and AR applications was implemented".

Ya this is effectively a non issue. https://www.roadtovr.com/nvidia-perceptually-based-foveated-... The primary issues in this space is latency not raw power.

> Ya this is effectively a non issue.

Yeah. If the new panel is presented as 3x or 4x 1080p (two foveal insets and one or two backgrounds), and tolerates 30 fps, I could run it off the old integrated graphics I'm typing at now.

> The primary issues in this space is latency

For immersive VR, yes. But as one moves away from gaming, and immersive, and VR, design constraints relax a lot.

There's so much ambient confusion about the shape of the broader design space, and misattribution of constraints.

I usually use my WMR (and Vive before that) on an old laptop with Intel integrated graphics. A duct-taped-on 30 fps camera-passthrough AR serves for balance, permitting I can even do subpixel rendering on the WMR. Lens focus is so bad, subpixels are only worth bothering with for like (0.5 kP)^2/eye (of the ~1 kP square/eye usable area, of the 1.4 kP square/eye panel). There's no point in even rendering full native resolution over much of the visual field. And not caring about immersion, there's no need for barrel and chromatic correction, nor for blending away seams between resolutions.

Such a vast amount of effort is spent on dealing with "horrible immersion-breaking visual artifacts", which for some parts of design space, are like "meh, sooo don't care". Remember the skeuomorphic user interface fad of a decade ago? A calender app should look like a leather-bound calendar book? And... remember all the claims that calendar apps wouldn't be viable for years, because of the GPU demands of faithfully rendering light reflection off the leather. Yeah, me neither. That would have been silly. Just like expecting a 3D/HMD professional "desktop" environment to prioritize immersion.

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#134
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> average computers to be able to render high frame-rates without breaking the bank High res stereo at 120Hz is never going to have to same graphics as the latest high budget big game release. Current GPUs are already very powerful, but if people have the expectations of getting the same graphics when they use VR they are going to be very frustrated.

I'm all for it if it means that AAA games will finally step off the photorealism treadmill and admit that pushing polygon counts is not a substitute for art direction. I'll take a Fortnite look over a PUBG look any day.

you can say this, but if you look at the most popular mods on skyrim they tend to make the game look more photorealistic, not less. the general trend for video game consumers is towards realism.

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#135
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia doesn't support it, but they don't have to. Vulkan allows game developers to spread the load across all GPUs, if they wish to. You can do SLI with 8 1080Tis, an intel iGPU and an RX VEGA all together without issues

Without issues is probably stretching the truth a bit.

Well, it’s entirely up to the developer – you won’t have any issues with the driver, or of similar nature.

In contrast to SLI, where the driver frequently was the cause of issues.

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#136
post #59

Everyone says that a powerful GPU is needed to drive this thing, but I don't think that's a must. Careful art direction based on current hardware limitations can produce nice-looking virtual worlds — not photorealistic, but still immersive and fun. Nintendo pulls this thing consistently.

Foviated rendering will half the requirements

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#137
post #92
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One problem rarely mentioned regarding VR is input. Jim Sterling mentioned this in a recent Jimquisition[0] video, and I think it's a valid criticism - the complexity required of modern games can't often be replicated with VR as well as it can with a controller and/or keyboard, certainly not improved upon. Motion controls are often not precise enough - players can do more with buttons sitting down than they can wavin…

A similar thing was said about keyboard and mouse compared to dual analog. And those things were true. Games and people adapted. Personally, I feel something work that can pick up nerve impulses as well as deliver modest feedback, tactile and or electrical will close much of this gap. New input paradigms will advance too, just as they currently are for touch. Touch today is getting good. The finger in the way problem…

Even if touch and motion controls improve, what evidence is there that they present a better paradigm for interaction than a keyboard or controller?

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#138

Think Google is going to need to develop some custom silicon to drive this level of resolution and not going to be easy.

This was the first thought I had, also, but from a optimistic point of view:

If you are interested in modelling the behaviour of a modern fabric loom, which can be a four storey high proposition with thousands of spindles feeding air guided bobbins, where the weight of the threads in your weave design affects the entire process, the way your thread hangs requires a different tension, how it stretches affects the feed and speed with which the bobbin can fly through the weft (vertical line frame into which the pattern is woven) and the elasticity and friction tension the weft sometimes intentionally... I am willing to bet it would suit me if the visual rendering is put on ASICS or FPGAs, while the physical modelling for cloth behaviour might be a more general purpose solution.

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#139
post #137
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar thing was said about keyboard and mouse compared to dual analog. And those things were true. Games and people adapted. Personally, I feel something work that can pick up nerve impulses as well as deliver modest feedback, tactile and or electrical will close much of this gap. New input paradigms will advance too, just as they currently are for touch. Touch today is getting good. The finger in the way problem…

Even if touch and motion controls improve, what evidence is there that they present a better paradigm for interaction than a keyboard or controller?

None. The question really is when does input get transparent enough to not be a bother. Whether it beats other forms and technologies is a different question. One that doesn't necessarily require an answer.

Re: Google and LG creates VR AMOLED 120 Hz at 5500 x 3000

#140
post #95

Everyone is talking about gaming but these are the kinds of resolutions you need for monitor replacement and more business related tasks.

Assuming that color management is seriously addressed.

But depth is a multiplier that the hardware requirements discussion has possibly overlooked:

I see most calculations above use 8 bits per channel, but 12 bits per channel is the range of professional video production, it 4:4:4 signal.

Panasonic's little GH5-s just announced records in 4:2:2 for 64* the color information of consumer 8 bit cams.

(Note the -s designation, the difference is all important. This video dedicated variant seems to have been launched without any leaks whatsoever, but garnered across the board coverage immediately. The importance of the camera has been list unfortunately to fresher news from Fujifilm and Sony, but the impact on the video formats (sensor size, lens mount,codec, workflow bandwidth) game may be significant.

As a result the price of capturing a signal you can apply the same quality of 3D blue screen graphics to, has plummeted. I know that the Sony A7ii has comparable capability at only four times the price but the recording of the full signal is bored, shifting the cheapest option to be ten times the price of this sweet little thing. No skin in this game except it's made a project long in development, finally viable)

We're much more susceptible to color information errors in terms of accepting new realities, once the other hurdles are overcome. This is because we're a part of the color information equation that leads to difficulty such as perceptual models, and equivalence elipses...

64 times the color information, anyhow is the fact that you deal with when matching your talent plus a blue screen background and CGI animated effects or infographics, which is the standard set-up in many studios. I'm no longer able to ask clarification personally from a friend but I believe that Sky News's anchor desk is virtual for some time now.

The color 'depth" is vital to create convincing mattes for consumption and the difference is instantly recognisable by most people over normal broadcast television. We're that good at adjusting for color variations that we jank bad on inconsistencies.

I can immediately think of the kind of application for which custom rendering hardware can get orders at the kind of tickets that might drive developments.

High end fabric weaving is one.

This can involve looms four stories high being fed by hundreds of bobbins. Threads are woven into the (vertical) by air suspension carried shuttles to create the complex wefts the industry is thriving on to meet with insatiable consumer demand for high value patterns in short quantity.

Set-up and teardown costs are considerable.

Color matching and selection, particularly in combination and in combination with varying reflectance and absorption spectra which interact including by means of elasticity which also governs shuttle speed and hence overall weaving rates is a scientific application of significant commercial value.

I can imagine thread suppliers wanting to deliver hardware modeller boards for the color properties, and high end FPGAs would be entirely justifiable to protect decades of research investment.

Being able to make interactive vr selections for new designs could make or break the most successful cloth manufacturers, all of whom need to capture the fast moving and ephemeral fashion orders.

In printing for magazines as well, I know that press proofing is often a vital role in contract with new and existing print supply alike. The sheer cost of errors, which if as late as being found in the make ready for a run are highly hazardous to anyone who has thin margins, let alone the drama of stopping a scheduled run with a bigger customer running right behind you... this is the single least appreciated cost involved in magazine production and technology has been too long almost about to resolve the risks. Too long to save smaller print shops. Too long to keep many independant publishers afloat. And it's a primary tech barrier to trading advertising positions independently.

I used a Symbolics xl1200 when new, and I disagree with the online inflation calculators, believing they are far too conservative. I would suggest that$120K in 1986 is more than $239,000 today. Twice that at least and maybe ten times. My hundred thousand dollars apartment went up sixteen fold in the same time.

You can get a lot of hardware for the current market value of that lispM, today.

If you accept my high end estimate of$1MM then I think people will build aggressive designs for the abilities this kind of display technology will encourage.

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