Simplicity Is Highly Overrated • Hacker News Board

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#51

Post by edw519 » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 1:48 PM UTC

qeorge wrote: post #47

edw519 wrote: post #45

Hmmm...When it comes to simplicity in design, I may be an outlier, but just a few of my daily struggles... - I have to subtract 23 minutes (or add 37 minutes depending on daylight savings time) from the clock in my car because I lost the manual. What ever happened to a dial with 2 hands? - I have to stand beside the microwave and open the door when the popcorn stops popping because I have no idea how to get good popc…

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things:

  - a microwave with a single dial
  - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home
  - a garage door opener with one button
  - a dishwasher with a status display
  - a car with an analog clock
  - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial

OP jumped to an unsubstantiated conclusion when we could have been writing about the elephant in the room: that functional design, like journalism and sensible politics, is a lost art.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#52

Post by cturner » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 1:58 PM UTC

jws wrote: post #43

kentnl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see limited use for a digital toaster, there are some perks you /could/ see like having personalized settings which somehow just know which person is using them ( RFID? ) and sets the appropriate toast setting for that person. Possibly detection on what it is toasting ( ie: hash-browns, muffin-splits ) and "smarter" toasting ( ie: using an optical sensor to measure surface browning, and using a laser thermometer to…

Plain old mechanical toaster trivia: The thermostatic element is placed in such a way that it is receiving reflected energy from the toast. As the bread dries and the Maillard reaction browns the toast it reflects more energy from the elements to the thermostat. Viola! Toast browning detection in one bent piece of metal!

Darker things absorbed heat, rather than reflecting it - ? But then raw black bread will behave differently to raw white. Sounds interesting but I'm unconvinced.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#53

Post by jonhohle » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:00 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #51

qeorge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things: - a microwave with a single dial - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home - a garage door opener with one button - a dishwasher with a status display - a car with an analog clock - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial OP jumped to an unsub…

Garage door opener with one button: http://amzn.to/bQBbFm The Infiniti FX35 has an analog clock. My dishwasher has a green light which indicates that the dishes are clean (though it turns off the first time you open the door, so you better be in the mood to put away dishes). Google voice rings all if your phones, landline or otherwise.

I've recently seen microwaves with a spring loaded timer dial, I'm sure you could still get one (if used).

Television setups on the other hand are needlessly complicated.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#54

Post by smartrly » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:01 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #51

qeorge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things: - a microwave with a single dial - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home - a garage door opener with one button - a dishwasher with a status display - a car with an analog clock - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial OP jumped to an unsub…

- a car with an analog clock

My Infiniti has an analog clock with two adjustment buttons, one moves it forward, the other back.

- a dishwasher with a status display

My previous dishwasher (a kitchenaid, I believe) had a light that indicated the dishes were clean. My current one (a bosch) does not. It's a downgrade that we didn't notice when purchasing.

- a garage door opener with one button

We have one of these from Chamberlain. That said, I go for the "more complex" solution of programming the buttons that are built into our daily drivers.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#55

Post by parbo » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:01 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #51

qeorge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things: - a microwave with a single dial - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home - a garage door opener with one button - a dishwasher with a status display - a car with an analog clock - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial OP jumped to an unsub…

Maserati Gransport has an analog clock.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#56

Post by gxti » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:02 PM UTC

drblast wrote: post #49

Uggh. I have a microwave that must be designed by the Koreans in this article. If I want to heat something up for thirty seconds, I have to wade through four menus and sub-menus: Express cook (ha ha)-> 30 seconds-> OK-> Start People who designed consumer microwaves have obviously never used one. I have NEVER cooked anything in the microwave that should have involved more than a single button press. If the cooking is…

My GE microwave has lots of features I never use. However, I can start nuking for 30 seconds or 1-6 minutes by pressing a single button. That "+30 seconds" button is probably be the best feature in the microwave. I won't deny, though, that a laundry list of features may have driven my purchase of this particular model. And since I didn't "test drive" it to see if it has any of the annoying crap like needing to set the date (really?) and time after a power outage just to cook anything like the last one I had -- I just got lucky.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#57

Post by modoc » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:05 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #51

qeorge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things: - a microwave with a single dial - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home - a garage door opener with one button - a dishwasher with a status display - a car with an analog clock - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial OP jumped to an unsub…

Microwave with just a dial: http://www.amazon.com/Dial-Microwave-1000W-15-0357-Category/... (there are many more). Although for what it's worth, my microwave has a "Popcorn" button that makes perfect popcorn every time.

I don't have a land line so I can't help you there. Although I always know where my cell phone is.

Every brand of garage door open seems to offer a single button remote (http://www.amazon.com/Genie-GIT-1BL-One-Button-Control-Intel...) and there are several aftermarket generic single button remotes as well.

Most modern dishwashers have a "clean" light that lets you know when the dishwasher is clean. My old Kenmore even does.

My wife's Audi A4 had an analog clock, although her new car has digital. I STRONGLY prefer digital. Setting the analog one was always a pain, and it didn't auto adjust for daylight savings time, like the new digital one does.

My Samsung TV has an on-off button and channel up and down buttons on the front. A dial doesn't make a lot of sense when you have 100s of channels.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#58

Post by gvb » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:09 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #51

qeorge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things: - a microwave with a single dial - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home - a garage door opener with one button - a dishwasher with a status display - a car with an analog clock - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial OP jumped to an unsub…

  - a microwave with a single dial

Avanti MO7082MB http://www.google.com/search?q=Avanti+MO7082MB

  - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home

Google Voice https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=grandce...

  - a garage door opener with one button

Liftmaster 371LM 315MHz Garage Door Remote Transmitter http://www.amazon.com/Liftmaster-315MHz-Garage-Remote-Transm...

  - a dishwasher with a status display

http://www.amazon.com/Cobble-Creek-Clean-Dishwasher-Magnet/d... (Granted, it is an add-on, but you didn't specify it had to be built in.)

  - a car with an analog clock

Chrysler Town and Country http://www.chrysler.com/shared/2010/town_country/gallery/ima... (Note that the clock not only is analog, it only has one button to set it. No manuals needed.)

  - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial

All the TVs I own have an on/off switch, albeit typically hidden where you cannot see it (behind or on the side of the screen bezel).

You got me on the dial, however. On the other hand, my TVs also have up/down channel switches which are a practical solution to having a dial than needs 200 detents.

P.S. I do agree with your summary, but I couldn't resist the challenge. :-)

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#59

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:10 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #51

qeorge wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are valid complaints, but they actually back up the author's point - You still bought the complex-looking item. That it annoys you now is irrelevant (in the author's view). He posits that even though you know you only need 2 buttons for your garage door opener, you'd still buy one with 5 buttons before you bought one with 2.

No, I didn't buy any of these things because I wanted to. Consumers don't have much choice any more. I defy you to go out and find any of these things: - a microwave with a single dial - a cell phone that rings on your land line when you're home - a garage door opener with one button - a dishwasher with a status display - a car with an analog clock - a TV with an on/off switch and a channel dial OP jumped to an unsub…

>a dishwasher with a status display

Just get a magnet and put it on the dishwasher when the contents are clean.

Pretty simple, but of course it would be simpler if you simply didn't wash the dishes before you put it in the _dish_washer.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#60

Post by TravisLS » Fri, Sep 03, 2010, 2:17 PM UTC

I think the author makes a valid point, but it's important not to confuse feature-rich and complex. A customer's purchase decision may be driven by the abundance of features, but the review they post later that week will be driven by the experience using your product.

Highlight features to sell, but keep those features well-organized and intuitive to create a positive experience after the sale.