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Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

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Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#531

Post by perl4ever »

throwawayjava wrote: post #414
perl4ever wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying it's "obvious and rational" that we want to deter people from committing fraud is not a good defense of those involved with Theranos. I say this, not as someone who will ever invest in private companies, but as someone who occasionally gets blood tests. I think it's extremely misguided to regard fairness to criminals or defending them as victims as the goal here - the important thing is, as you seem to sort of…

> Saying it's "obvious and rational" that we want to deter people from committing fraud is not a good defense of those involved with Theranos Oh, I didn't intend that as a defense of Theranos. I intended that as a justification for punishing Shkreli. > the important thing is, as you seem to sort of agree, to deter bad actors and encourage good ones. I think punishment has many societal functions, some of them more ra…

I'm more comfortable with a utilitarian idea of justice, where retribution and intuitive feelings about justice being satisfied come as side effects and not explicit goals. Deterrence, prevention, and rehabilitation are the goals. Punishment needs to be shaped by those.

I would certainly not say that all functions of punishment in society are legitimate. There was just a news article about someone whose exculpatory DNA evidence will not prevent them being executed. Assuming that sort of thing happens occasionally (regardless whether it's true as reported in this case) then it certainly serves a societal purpose to avoid admitting prosecutorial error, but it's not legitimate.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#532

Post by chefandy »

FussyZeus wrote: post #172
fwdpropaganda wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion: if you think this is about race and gender (as opposed to about wealth and power) you're being played.

Well the thing is, due to the redlining practices of yore, black people have a significant disadvantage when compared to even the meager wealth of poor whites. And that's not even getting into the cultural issues surrounding "ghetto" culture (which is also predominantly traceable to redlining.)

Not to mention schools being funded by property taxes, so people living in high-density, lower-value areas (depressed urban, almost always nonwhite) always have underfunded schools while those who live in relatively low-density, higher-value (wealthy suburbs, almost always white) areas have extremely well funded schools. Also, rampant employment discrimination based on name alone (Are Greg and Emily More Employable Than Lakisha And Jamal, 2003, pdf: https://tinyurl.com/ydghdzuc) Also, higher police scrutiny than whites, and even higher conviction and incarceration rates than whites for the same crimes. etc. etc. etc.

While there are economically depressed whites who have some of the same problems as economically depressed non-whites simply because they're economically depressed, their situations are not equivalent. Saying that they are is nothing more than a way for white people to distance themselves from the fact that we are in fact privileged because of our race, and that our relative success isn't solely attributed to our hard work, smarts and persistence.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#533

Post by joering2 »

vadimberman wrote: post #519
killaken2000 wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure. They do seem to be pretty close https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/intelligence-histor...

100% sure. Like your source says, it's a partnership between the CIA and the private sector. "Close" does not mean part of the organisation. The founder Norman R. Augustine isn't even a CIA person. It is somewhat similar to a spinned-off company which runs independently but has tight connections (and a contract, in case of In-Q-Tel) with the organization that spinned it off. * In-Q-Tel (theoretically) may have other…

All this sounds like a great coverup for a CIA company :)

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#534

Post by EpicEng »

onecooldev24 wrote: post #510
EpicEng wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that your attitude and words have no bearing on what happens to you in these situations you're beyond naive. The justice system is made up of people, not robots. Nothing unethical was done it him, he was convicted and sentenced accordingly. If you get pulled over and call the cops a dick the second he walks up to your car, you're gonna have a bad time (and you deserve it.)

"Nothing unethical was done it him, he was convicted and sentenced accordingly" Dumbfounded by your words, a 800% increase from the average sentence is, I think completely ok in a just system.

That's not how sentencing works. Unless the judge is up against a mandatory minimum, s/he has ranges to work within. Intent and attitude (lack of remorse, etc.) absolutely factor into that sentence.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#535

Post by swyx »

_pmf_ wrote: post #514
swyx wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what actual evidence do we have of her intelligence apart from starting theranos and doing the original research that led to starting theranos? honest question

I don't know, but suggesting that Marissa Mayer or Elizabeth Holmes are not among the most intelligent people ever roaming this planet quickly labels you as an insufferable misogynist here.

its a fine line for sure. but MM definitely achieved way more than EH did, going into Yahoo.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#536

Post by cat199 »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #265
ilamont wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Board members may have been incompetent, guilty of a dereliction of duty, or were tricked themselves. Meeting minutes would shed light on this.

It’s noteworthy that none of the board members had experience in the medical device industry. They were most likely just in over their heads.

if you look at the timeline of events, I highly doubt this..

https://taskandpurpose.com/mattis-theranos-questions/

for starters. Not to mention rushing approval just months prior to obamacare taking effect and conveniently lining up drugstore partnerships at around the same time.

The board composition makes everything all the more suspicious.

Not to mention the same executive of that western union..

The level of shrewdness of, and resources available to, people operating at this level makes any claims of 'over their heads' tantamount to 'gross negligence' at the very least..

the phrase 'plausible deniability' didn't get invented in a vacuum...

and lets not even get into the business about the researcher who committed suicide because he didn't want to lie long before any of this other stuff happened..

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#537

Post by mikeyouse »

onecooldev24 wrote: post #511
mikeyouse wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the SEC's original complaint: https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2015/comp-pr2015-2... > 44. On March 2, 2011 , Shkreli stated in e-mails to MSMB investors that "MSMB returned +4.24% in February 2011 " and had "returned +41.71 % since inception on 11/1/2009." In fact, by the end of February 2011, MSMB had virtually no assets. MSMB had suffered over $7 million in losses in its account at Executing Broker a…

What about the fact, that he paid from his own shareholding of the company, and the company investors didn't end up paying for it. The bigger point every one is missing is, he got a 800% increase from the average sentence. That IS NOT FAIR!!

He repaid investors in his hedge fund with millions of dollars in fraudulent consulting contracts from a different company that they weren't investors in. This is a breach of fiduciary duty at minimum and likely criminal fraud. He also repeatedly produced false financial statements to cover up his massive losses.

He was convicted by a jury of his peers on Federal charges and was sentenced using the Federal Sentencing Guidelines which are universal across all cases. Shouting in all caps doesn't make something unfair...

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#538

Post by kahnjw »

zaphos wrote: post #517
kahnjw wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you didn't carefully read my original post. I'm not claiming the SEC has a perfect record in finding frauds before the hurt anyone (that would be nearly impossible). I am pointing out that getting away with fraud is extremely difficult. Eventually, you'll get caught, the SEC will uncover everything, and you'll be broke forever. From op: >...avoiding the ire of the SEC is relatively easy if you set your mind to…

Even if it's relatively easy to not get caught, you can't be sure exactly how easy it is, and the downside is catastrophic. So no, I don't think every entity in your thought experiment would be committing fraud. Only ones that knew for sure exactly how easy it is and that they would not get caught for sure. And those ones, by definition, would never be caught so the public would never know ...

You can be sure exactly how easy it is because in a perfectly competitive economy everyone has perfect information, and the experiment's key assumption is getting away with fraud is a endogenous variable in the utility function. The fraudster can manipulate this variable to optimize their utility. This means that every actor knows exactly what they must do to avoid getting caught. It's a simplification so we can consider the implications of the notion that getting away with fraud is as easy as setting your mind to it. Another assumption is entities act solely in their own financial best interest. In this setup, everyone who will be better off by committing some form of fraud, which will be everyone who participates in the economy, will commit fraud.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#539

Post by throwaway_80bf3 »

briandear wrote: post #82

So do those of us accused of sexism for not supporting Holmes a few years ago now get vindicated? Attacking her competence and questioning the Theranos Kool-Aid was seen as sexist and unfair, but it turns out we were right — she is a criminal — or at least a civil violator of securities law.

You don't get anything because the world doesn't work like that. Move on.

Re: Theranos, CEO Holmes, and Former President Balwani Charged with Fraud

#540

Post by ericd »

dnautics wrote: post #491
jyrkesh wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I don't think any of your friends offered you a position because you're they're friend. They offered you a position because they knew you AND they knew you were smart/talented/a coder/whatever. I got my first foot in the door via an internship on a referral from a friend who had interned there the year before. I had no formal credentials (just taking CS classes on the side of an Econ degree in college), but I h…

my contention is not that I got any jobs because I was a friend (or a contact of a friend) but rather that I very likely wouldn't have gotten any jobs if I weren't a contact of a friend. A lot of the SV narratives circle around meritocracy (or other ways of 'hacking the signalling game' even. And when you say "it's SUPER unlikely", I think you're 100% correct. And so challenging the meritocracy myth is important.

Your story is the "meritocracy myth" in action. You demonstrating your merit to people who then vouched for you. It'd be nice if we were good at judging people objectively without knowing them for very long, but we're not, especially in very important aspects like trustworthiness.
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