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'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

theguardian.com

11–20 of 88 posts

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#11
Its interesting to note I've worked at two companies who were attempting to lure cities into giving them tax breaks for building larger campuses, or other structures. Both times since they didn't get their tax breaks, they dumped the projects.

So no, not all cities or municipalities cow tow to large corporations when it comes to handing out tax breaks or incentives.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism doesn't really work unless it can fight on equal footing with the state. If the state can just clamp down however it wants on private enterprise, then eventually all private enterprise becomes state enterprise. See China. And there are US states with 0 income tax. And countries with very low income tax. Russia has 13% income tax, the state gets most of its income from its fascinating system of tributary ta…

The state’s role is to enable the level of capitalism it desires. Capitalism doesn’t compete against the state, as the state can always control it.

This is a very Anglo point of view. In other parts of the world the relationship is much more antagonistic than you would expect. The state has to get its money from somewhere, and the locals rarely have much of it.

The state is often heavily intertwined with industry, through massive regulation and, too often, good old-fashioned corruption. If the state thinks it can get away with nationalizing a vital industry concern, it will without a pause. Usually though it can't because it knows that bureaucrats make horrible managers.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#13

I'm not sure that I would stick around Atlanta if Amazon puts its HQ here. The property values will skyrocket, and I haven't bought in here yet. The civic angle is interesting though, will pressure groups succeed in reining back the usual massive concessions that local governments usually grant corporate behemoths? Or will it be business as usual where the giant tosses a few shiny wampum beads to the locals while des…

"I won't be able to profit in the most obvious way possible, so I will leave."

That doesn't make much sense to me.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#15
post #13

I'm not sure that I would stick around Atlanta if Amazon puts its HQ here. The property values will skyrocket, and I haven't bought in here yet. The civic angle is interesting though, will pressure groups succeed in reining back the usual massive concessions that local governments usually grant corporate behemoths? Or will it be business as usual where the giant tosses a few shiny wampum beads to the locals while des…

"I won't be able to profit in the most obvious way possible, so I will leave." That doesn't make much sense to me.

Well, there won't be anything protecting me from a rent increase of 20-30% so it's less about profit and more about just plain-ole affordability.

My father has property here so I'm sure he'll be fine.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#16
post #2

Capitalism is way out of control. No corporation should be able to strong arm the government to get out of taxes. At least not until I can pit states against each other to get out of my income tax.

Capitalism doesn't really work unless it can fight on equal footing with the state. If the state can just clamp down however it wants on private enterprise, then eventually all private enterprise becomes state enterprise. See China. And there are US states with 0 income tax. And countries with very low income tax. Russia has 13% income tax, the state gets most of its income from its fascinating system of tributary ta…

Bullshit and hyperbole. There are various degrees of capitalism, and saying that if the state doesn't put corporations at its same level, eventually it'll become more or less like China, is pushing a certain type of agenda.

Have a look at Europe, there's fully privatised states, and some that might be regarded wrongly, from an American point of view, as socialist, yet still actually capitalist in economic philosophy.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#17

I'm not sure that I would stick around Atlanta if Amazon puts its HQ here. The property values will skyrocket, and I haven't bought in here yet. The civic angle is interesting though, will pressure groups succeed in reining back the usual massive concessions that local governments usually grant corporate behemoths? Or will it be business as usual where the giant tosses a few shiny wampum beads to the locals while des…

Atlanta thrives on Delta, Coca Cola, UPS, Home Depot, and others. Far from "destroying livelihoods", it's in large part due to the "giants" that Atlanta is a major economic hub in the southeast.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#18
post #13

I'm not sure that I would stick around Atlanta if Amazon puts its HQ here. The property values will skyrocket, and I haven't bought in here yet. The civic angle is interesting though, will pressure groups succeed in reining back the usual massive concessions that local governments usually grant corporate behemoths? Or will it be business as usual where the giant tosses a few shiny wampum beads to the locals while des…

"I won't be able to profit in the most obvious way possible, so I will leave." That doesn't make much sense to me.

You will no longer be able to raise a family in the Atlanta core if you haven't already bought.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#19

Honestly, I think it should be illegal for a city or state to negotiate a tax break with a specific company. Sure, they can cut taxes across the board if they want, but everyone should get the same deal. I'm even for banning "backdoor" tax breaks that effectively only benefit one or two companies and were clearly targeted at them (I'm thinking of the Delta aviation fuel tax break, as an example), or sweetheart deals…

I agree. There is a good chance if they distributed these tax breaks over all their small businesses the overall benefit may be higher than giving them one big player. This kind of deal distorts the economy to the benefit of a few big players.

Re: 'Not welcome here': Amazon faces growing resistance to its second home

#20

Its interesting to note I've worked at two companies who were attempting to lure cities into giving them tax breaks for building larger campuses, or other structures. Both times since they didn't get their tax breaks, they dumped the projects. So no, not all cities or municipalities cow tow to large corporations when it comes to handing out tax breaks or incentives.

Because they only do it when it makes financial sense, political sense, or both. Getting Amazon to move to $CITY could very well bring in billions of dollars in [personal income] tax revenue, jobs, etc. It may or may not make $CITY more in the long run even if they're giving Amazon $5B in total breaks. But even if they make less than they give Amazon, there's still the obvious political implication of being responsible for the 50,000+ jobs that got created in your city.
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