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Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

theatlantic.com

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Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#11

Post by jack6e »

In another story popular on HN yesterday/today about DNA [0], some of the commenters discussed epigenetics, and the fact that the DNA sequence is simply the "hardware" that encodes what is possible for cells to produce, but there is "software", if you will, above that which determines how sequences of DNA are actually expressed.

In these cases of analyzing really old DNA where only the DNA remains, I wonder how researchers make decisions about selecting what they want to express between varying attributes? I.e., the example used in the article about representing "Cheddar Man" - did they have some basis for selecting the traits to visualize or was it arbitrary?

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16589412

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#12

Post by kapilkaisare »

fein wrote: post #5
ryandvm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard that either. According to 23andMe, I'm in the 99th percentile for Neanderthal DNA variants and my ancestry report claims I'm a disappointingly un-diverse 99.9% European.

> disappointingly un-diverse I... What does this even mean? Are you ashamed of your heritage?

I don't think he is. Let me try to explain why.

I haven't done a DNA ancestry test yet, but I imagine I would be pretty happy to learn that there were several peoples/races?/cultures behind me, beyond my apparent South Asian heritage. This does not imply that I am ashamed of my origins - quite the contrary, in fact - but that I imagine it would be nice to ... be more, a citizen of the world, in a fashion.

I would expect this outlook of anyone with a cosmopolitan upbringing by default, as well as anyone who has exposed himself or herself to other cultures via media (books, movies, etc..).

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#13

Post by fein »

kapilkaisare wrote: post #12
fein wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disappointingly un-diverse I... What does this even mean? Are you ashamed of your heritage?

I don't think he is. Let me try to explain why. I haven't done a DNA ancestry test yet, but I imagine I would be pretty happy to learn that there were several peoples/races?/cultures behind me, beyond my apparent South Asian heritage. This does not imply that I am ashamed of my origins - quite the contrary, in fact - but that I imagine it would be nice to ... be more, a citizen of the world, in a fashion. I would exp…

We've gotten to a point where Europeans seem to be looking for anything to give them some minority culture status.

Just take pride in who and what you are and where you came from.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#14

Post by haihaibye »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #7

What an awesome antidote to today's depressing story about white nationalists coopting Black Panther as an affirmation of ethnicity-based political states. If science can keep reminding people how random and fragile current ethnic or national divisions are in the face of time, maybe more people will focus on building knowledge that lasts longer.

I'm interested in comparing your perspective with the people in favor of ethnicity-based political states.

I imagine they want a future where their genes carry on while you are interested in "knowledge that lasts"

You could say they are gene-centric and you are meme-centric?

Of two futures, which would you prefer?

1. Where your descendants/relatives are alive but have little in common with your values (eg compare bronze age to now)

2. You have no genetic descendants/relatives but whatever exists (robots, aliens, planet of the apes) shares your value system.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#15

Post by patrickg_zill »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #7

What an awesome antidote to today's depressing story about white nationalists coopting Black Panther as an affirmation of ethnicity-based political states. If science can keep reminding people how random and fragile current ethnic or national divisions are in the face of time, maybe more people will focus on building knowledge that lasts longer.

Depressing... Or hilarious?

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#16

Post by laretluval »

jack6e wrote: post #11

In another story popular on HN yesterday/today about DNA [0], some of the commenters discussed epigenetics, and the fact that the DNA sequence is simply the "hardware" that encodes what is possible for cells to produce, but there is "software", if you will, above that which determines how sequences of DNA are actually expressed. In these cases of analyzing really old DNA where only the DNA remains, I wonder how resea…

I'm not sure the hardware/software analogy is useful. It's more like DNA is source code with a bunch of if statements that depend on the chemical environment the cell is in.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#17

Post by mc32 »

ryandvm wrote: post #4
fosco wrote: post #2

>Today, surprisingly, the people carrying the most Neanderthal DNA are not in Europe but in East Asia Interesting, I would love to see more information on this -- I had not heard this previously.

I have not heard that either. According to 23andMe, I'm in the 99th percentile for Neanderthal DNA variants and my ancestry report claims I'm a disappointingly un-diverse 99.9% European.

I don't think I'd ever hear a non white say they are disappointed with being 100% what they are, be they Asian, Black, etc. Maybe there are, I've never home across them, but a few whites have this tendency to wish for having "interesting" ancestry like sen. Warren.

It's something odd. As if they are somewhat uncomfortable on their own skin. Shame is the wrong word, but i can't find the right descriptor. On the other hand, i think this points to social pressures that make people feel that way about themselves.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#18

Post by otabdeveloper1 »

evrydayhustling wrote: post #7

What an awesome antidote to today's depressing story about white nationalists coopting Black Panther as an affirmation of ethnicity-based political states. If science can keep reminding people how random and fragile current ethnic or national divisions are in the face of time, maybe more people will focus on building knowledge that lasts longer.

The very point of white nationalism is precisely to worry about the randomness and fragility of the current ethnic and national divisions.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#19

Post by pbhjpbhj »

fein wrote: post #13
kapilkaisare wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he is. Let me try to explain why. I haven't done a DNA ancestry test yet, but I imagine I would be pretty happy to learn that there were several peoples/races?/cultures behind me, beyond my apparent South Asian heritage. This does not imply that I am ashamed of my origins - quite the contrary, in fact - but that I imagine it would be nice to ... be more, a citizen of the world, in a fashion. I would exp…

We've gotten to a point where Europeans seem to be looking for anything to give them some minority culture status. Just take pride in who and what you are and where you came from.

It's pretty much frowned upon to be in any way proud to be a pale skinned European; mainstream media demands we feel shame for all the oppression we did in the centuries before our birth.

That said, I don't understand how I've can be "proud" of which country you were born in, makes no sense to me.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#20

Post by jack6e »

laretluval wrote: post #16
jack6e wrote: post #11

In another story popular on HN yesterday/today about DNA [0], some of the commenters discussed epigenetics, and the fact that the DNA sequence is simply the "hardware" that encodes what is possible for cells to produce, but there is "software", if you will, above that which determines how sequences of DNA are actually expressed. In these cases of analyzing really old DNA where only the DNA remains, I wonder how resea…

I'm not sure the hardware/software analogy is useful. It's more like DNA is source code with a bunch of if statements that depend on the chemical environment the cell is in.

Sorry if that is wrong, I'm just repeating the metaphor used by the more educated people in that other thread to the best of my understanding.
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