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Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

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Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#11

Post by akshayubhat »

symkat wrote: post #2

I suppose a counter-argument to this would be... anything Apple makes? Their non-computer products generally have fewer buttons on them than comparable phones/mp3 players. The MiFi that was just being raved about earlier today also only has an on/off button. Perhaps those are exceptions, rather than the rule. What makes those exceptional, though?

Apple Mac's aren't a success considering their market share. [Personal opinions are irrelevant]

Your argument is fallacious: iPod evolved to address the feature issue: so from a single Classic iPod you now have shuffle, nano and touch. even within each type say iPod nano there has been considerable change. Check out the latest nano and the earlier one, adding touchscreen is same as adding complexity.

It's probably your Apple bias which seems to be at play here.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#12

Post by mooism2 »

symkat wrote: post #2

I suppose a counter-argument to this would be... anything Apple makes? Their non-computer products generally have fewer buttons on them than comparable phones/mp3 players. The MiFi that was just being raved about earlier today also only has an on/off button. Perhaps those are exceptions, rather than the rule. What makes those exceptional, though?

The MiFi doesn't only have an on/off button: it also has an internal webserver that you use to configure it.

But it comes securely preconfigured, so most people can ignore the webserver --- easy, since it's invisible unless you go looking for it --- without suffering any ill effects. It's an example of progressive disclosure, I suppose.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#13

Post by riffraff »

jacquesm wrote: post #10

I think it is possible to have a complicated product that is made easy to use and has extra features that get 'exposed' over time for your power users to find, preferably just when they need them the first time. Complexity per-se has nothing to do with it, (over) complex problems fail just as fast as overly simplified products. The trick is to match what your application is offering to the user in such a way that the…

this was my first thought too (and there are plenty of washing machines with a couple of buttons and the rest hidden behind a panel to prove it, I thought).

But this is also addressed in the article, in the addendum part:

""" One person truly misunderstood because he advocated hiding the extra controls, thus preserving the apparent simplicity. Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale. """

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#14

Post by jacquesm »

riffraff wrote: post #13
jacquesm wrote: post #10

I think it is possible to have a complicated product that is made easy to use and has extra features that get 'exposed' over time for your power users to find, preferably just when they need them the first time. Complexity per-se has nothing to do with it, (over) complex problems fail just as fast as overly simplified products. The trick is to match what your application is offering to the user in such a way that the…

this was my first thought too (and there are plenty of washing machines with a couple of buttons and the rest hidden behind a panel to prove it, I thought). But this is also addressed in the article, in the addendum part: """ One person truly misunderstood because he advocated hiding the extra controls, thus preserving the apparent simplicity. Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale. """

> Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale.

Maybe that holds true for some applications, but for the most part (in my experience at least) 'hiding' is not synonymous with 'having the right stuff at the right time'.

To make your application appear complex is just going to increase the barrier to entry.

I'm fairly sure the only reason I'm in business and have been for a long time is because the first contact with our application is as simple as you could possibly make it.

That it can do a lot of other stuff is assumed until needed. People sometimes send support mail about very advanced features indicating that the 'power users' are definitely able to find their way. But for 99% of the audience the first level is all they'll ever get to and they're happy there.

If you sell a luxury car, apparently it has to have buttons.

But when you look at those buttons on a 10 year old car you'll see which ones are the ones that got used (because they wore!). As a rules, it's the same buttons that you'll find on a Lada.

But cars are 'conspicuous consumption' for some, so they are not to be compared with a web-app.

Something like 'mint' has enormous functionality but they've made it relatively (as easy as you can make it I guess) easy to get on board because of this exposure trick.

Good software uses context. Over-complex design does not drive sales unless you're trying to send all your competitors down a dead end street.

Microsoft word, that pinnacle of design, is only where it is today because of lock-in, if not for that (users emailing each other word documents) and some pretty ruthless marketing it wouldn't stand a chance.

Text editing is - as someone quoted here - a solved problem, but it seems that there still isn't an easy way to get what you want. Possibly there will never be (because text editing is inherently complex), but that should not discourage those that seek to enhance the user experience with minimalist approaches.

To me the apple audio line of products is a great example of how minimal + gradual exposure is the way to enormous sales, don't forget they weren't the first company to produce an audio player (or a smartphone either).

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#15

Post by weego »

I disagree to a point, I think you need to appreciate that the term simple is not at all simple in itself and is totally relative to the observer.

For example, my parents bought all the gadgets and gizmos a kid could ever want, and I though growing up with them and pressing and getting myself out of awkward situations (like trying to figure out what "change language" would be in mandarin after changing the languate on the DVD player just to see what would happen) I would consider something like a Sky box, a pre-amp or a DVD player simple no matter what the interface (tactile and digital) looked like a simple tool to use.

My parents, who bought all these things and used them a little are consistently lost whenever they have to replace their digital radio, or DVD player. All the functions are the same, but the experience is different, and for them that means everything is different and unknown. Their understanding of simple is from way before we even had our fist microwave.

Simplicity is not a myth, it's just not a constant. This is pretty much addressed, but not argued, explicitly in the article: the measure if simple you use for your product must be appropriate to your target demographic and not the definition of the engineering team or a think-tank.

It is possible for simple to not be simple.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#16

Post by michael_dorfman »

iamcalledrob wrote: post #6

This is mainly a cultural difference between East and West. I would say that Western people tend to define a successful product as something that's simple, functional, and easy to use. In other cultures, the feature list defines whether a product is successful. The more the better.

Do you have some data to back this up?

One of the primary examples he used was a (German) Siemens washing machine.

Are the dashboards of German-made automobiles significantly less cluttered than those of Japanese-made?

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#17

Post by michael_dorfman »

jacquesm wrote: post #14
riffraff wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this was my first thought too (and there are plenty of washing machines with a couple of buttons and the rest hidden behind a panel to prove it, I thought). But this is also addressed in the article, in the addendum part: """ One person truly misunderstood because he advocated hiding the extra controls, thus preserving the apparent simplicity. Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale. """

> Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale. Maybe that holds true for some applications, but for the most part (in my experience at least) 'hiding' is not synonymous with 'having the right stuff at the right time'. To make your application appear complex is just going to increase the barrier to entry. I'm fairly sure the only reason I'm in business and have been for a long time is because the first c…

To make your application appear complex is just going to increase the barrier to entry.

That depends on the customer segment you are targeting.

Over-complex design does not drive sales unless you're trying to send all your competitors down a dead end street.

Or, if you're selling "Enterprise Software". I've had to re-design things to be less simple, in order to make them more attractive to customers, and had my staff spend countless hours developing bells and whistles that impressed purchasing VPs in demos, but then were never used by the actual users.

Some customers will take "more features, and a busier looking interface" over "a simple, elegant design that actually does everything you need it to" every time. In my experience, these tend to be the customers who are not users themselves-- but, they often have the purchasing power over thousands of users.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#18

Post by felxh »

symkat wrote: post #2

I suppose a counter-argument to this would be... anything Apple makes? Their non-computer products generally have fewer buttons on them than comparable phones/mp3 players. The MiFi that was just being raved about earlier today also only has an on/off button. Perhaps those are exceptions, rather than the rule. What makes those exceptional, though?

well it certainly might explain the "overpriced toy" reaction to their products from some people

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#20

Post by symkat »

akshayubhat wrote: post #11
symkat wrote: post #2

I suppose a counter-argument to this would be... anything Apple makes? Their non-computer products generally have fewer buttons on them than comparable phones/mp3 players. The MiFi that was just being raved about earlier today also only has an on/off button. Perhaps those are exceptions, rather than the rule. What makes those exceptional, though?

Apple Mac's aren't a success considering their market share. [Personal opinions are irrelevant] Your argument is fallacious: iPod evolved to address the feature issue: so from a single Classic iPod you now have shuffle, nano and touch. even within each type say iPod nano there has been considerable change. Check out the latest nano and the earlier one, adding touchscreen is same as adding complexity. It's probably yo…

"It's probably your Apple bias which seems to be at play here."

Yes, because obviously Apple is not considered by their dominating market share of both the MP3[1] and Phone[2] sectors. Apple is also obviously a company that puts tons of knobs, dials and switches on their products to sell them like the toaster in the article and my pointing them out had nothing to do with this.

Silly me, and my Apple Fangirlism.

[1] http://www.businessweek.com/technology/tech_stats/mp3s060209... [2] http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/06/06/apples_iphone_...

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