Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

uknow.uky.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 50 posts

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#41

Post by d0lph »

dpark wrote: post #39
d0lph wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably result in advertising becoming ineffective.

> Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. No, there is no debate. No one seriously argues that companies pour half a trillion dollars into advertising that doesn't work. > However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably resu…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnewman/2015/04/28/researc...

It's at least not a new thought. Mostly though I'm skeptical that advertising is subverting capitalism.

Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it.

Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position.

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#42

Post by dpark »

d0lph wrote: post #41
dpark wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. No, there is no debate. No one seriously argues that companies pour half a trillion dollars into advertising that doesn't work. > However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably resu…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnewman/2015/04/28/researc... It's at least not a new thought. Mostly though I'm skeptical that advertising is subverting capitalism. Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it. Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position.

That article has very little concrete info in it, but the core is not that advertising doesn't work but that advertising to millennials effectively requires updated approaches. I certainly would not say that advertising "subverts" capitalism. Advertising is part of capitalism. It always has been. You can't get your wagon repaired if you don't know where the wagon repair shop is.

Advertising is also part of the capitalism chain. Companies demand advertising, so it exists.

> Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it.

You're describing creating demand. Someone didn't want something because they didn't know it existed. Now they want it. This is the most effective advertising possible.

> Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position.

Ok? If you exit the default position because you saw an ad, the ad worked.

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#43

Post by wrycoder »

mchannon wrote: post #22
wrycoder wrote: post #18

I’m wondering why rare earths end up in coal in the first place.

Coal (at least most of the time) comes from decaying plants. Before the plants decayed, they pulled up all manner of minerals from soil. Rare earths behave similarly to iron, so if a plant can uptake iron from its soil (it can) then so can it uptake rare earths. There are numerous instances of field reclamation from mercury contamination specifically by use of plants to leach the mercury from the soil, then harvest,…

Very interesting, thanks!

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#44

Post by OrganicMSG »

d0lph wrote: post #33
OrganicMSG wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If society does not need or want something, there is an entire industry devoted to convincing society otherwise, that uses psychological and social modelling on vast and detailed databases of the targeted population. Democratic systems these days are not followed, they are moulded.

Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably result in advertising becoming ineffective.

There is certainly a debate over which parts of advertising work most effectively, however I have never heard anyone seriously suggest (until maybe now) that the entire concept of advertising may have no effect at all.

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#45

Post by d0lph »

dpark wrote: post #42
d0lph wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnewman/2015/04/28/researc... It's at least not a new thought. Mostly though I'm skeptical that advertising is subverting capitalism. Is demand created though? How do you know that some people weren't just unaware of the product before, and would have gladly bought it had they known of it. Because not buying something is the easiest, and default position.

That article has very little concrete info in it, but the core is not that advertising doesn't work but that advertising to millennials effectively requires updated approaches. I certainly would not say that advertising "subverts" capitalism. Advertising is part of capitalism. It always has been. You can't get your wagon repaired if you don't know where the wagon repair shop is. Advertising is also part of the capita…

> Advertising is part of capitalism.

Because the core principles of Capitalism could function without advertising, I think this is incorrect.

The main point I was trying to make was that advertising does not remove the inherent Democratic component of Capitalism.

> You're describing creating demand. Someone didn't want something because they didn't know it existed. Now they want it. This is the most effective advertising possible.

The advertiser didn't really create the demand though, it existed before them?

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#46

Post by d0lph »

OrganicMSG wrote: post #44
d0lph wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, because I thought there was debate of whether or not advertising actually works, especially online advertising. However, at the end of the day it won't matter. Advertising is available to all companies, we end up with a tug of war over peoples attentions, which will probably result in advertising becoming ineffective.

There is certainly a debate over which parts of advertising work most effectively, however I have never heard anyone seriously suggest (until maybe now) that the entire concept of advertising may have no effect at all.

I cede that point, I tend to ignore advertising, and people do debate whether _internet_ advertising works.

However, I don't think that advertising is enough to remove the democratic component from capitalism.

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#47

Post by OrganicMSG »

d0lph wrote: post #46
OrganicMSG wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is certainly a debate over which parts of advertising work most effectively, however I have never heard anyone seriously suggest (until maybe now) that the entire concept of advertising may have no effect at all.

I cede that point, I tend to ignore advertising, and people do debate whether _internet_ advertising works. However, I don't think that advertising is enough to remove the democratic component from capitalism.

How can you say that with any confidence, while at the same time admitting you have not looked into it?

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#48

Post by d0lph »

OrganicMSG wrote: post #47
d0lph wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cede that point, I tend to ignore advertising, and people do debate whether _internet_ advertising works. However, I don't think that advertising is enough to remove the democratic component from capitalism.

How can you say that with any confidence, while at the same time admitting you have not looked into it?

Because the majority of advertising is for mundane products, which are unlikely to influence people politically.

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#49

Post by OrganicMSG »

d0lph wrote: post #48
OrganicMSG wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you say that with any confidence, while at the same time admitting you have not looked into it?

Because the majority of advertising is for mundane products, which are unlikely to influence people politically.

The majority of politics is to do with the exceptionally mundane and politics in market based economies are as much about what people buy as who they vote for.

If you want a perfect example of this, go back to the start of modern advertising and look up the phrase "Torches Of Freedom" and Edward Bernays.

Re: Researchers produce nearly-pure rare earth concentrates from coal

#50

Post by d0lph »

OrganicMSG wrote: post #49
d0lph wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the majority of advertising is for mundane products, which are unlikely to influence people politically.

The majority of politics is to do with the exceptionally mundane and politics in market based economies are as much about what people buy as who they vote for. If you want a perfect example of this, go back to the start of modern advertising and look up the phrase "Torches Of Freedom" and Edward Bernays.

In the case you cite, advertisers were piggy backing on the feminist movement to sell cigarettes to women because there was a stigma against women smoking.

In what way did this harm democracy? Cigarettes are dying off, because of scientific discoveries, if anything this demonstrates my point.

Post reply on HN