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Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

toddwschneider.com

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Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#51

Post by Spooky23 »

isostatic wrote: post #41
ghaff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would seem to be a very urbanite view of the world. A lot of people have good reasons for owning their own personalized vehicle. (Gear, kids, mobile storage locker, etc.) So long as you live somewhere with enough space that storing a vehicle isn't expensive/difficult, given that most of the costs are in mileage, it's hard to see most people giving up ownership. And, in any case, full door to door autonomy, in at…

Kids is a big thing -- needing specific car seats means taxis are out until your kids are 12. That said the average car costs $34k in the US and lasts say 10 years, that's $3,400 a year. Maintenence, taxes, etc another $1500 at least, that's $5k/yr before you move an inch. While automatic cars may not get rid of everything, many 2 or 3 car families, especially in the suburbs, may drop to 1.

Normal car expenses are around $0.55/mile for an average car. The average joe pays about $8,000-$8,500 annually for all car related expenses. Some pay more for fancy stuff or utility.

That's why suburbs exist. Financially, it's a much better deal for families on just about any axis.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#52

Post by epc »

x_throwaway80bf wrote: post #13
throwaway_80bf3 wrote: post #7

7 years ago you'd have to jump into a yellow cab before telling the rider if you were going from Manhattan to Brooklyn or Brooklyn to Brooklyn. If you told them before you got in, they'd speed off. You used to have to walk to arterial roads in hopes of finding a yellow cab (in the outer boroughs). That is if you lived in neighborhoods that the article points out now skews towards Lyft. Well to do, post gentrification…

I had to make a throwaway as well just because I couldn't believe this comment. This is so utterly false. You're essentially claiming that the value of these services is all based on the innovation of the _hailing_ functionality, but there are countless apps that recreate this functionality _exactly_ whether for 'regular' taxis or separately licensed cars. If what you want is for a driver to come to your exact locati…

Consumers do not care about market externalities. Consumers do not care about the "cost based reasons". Yellow taxis were given a monopoly in NYC, the trade off was to accept all rides within the City.

I lived in Brooklyn Heights and DUMBO for years, and quite routinely filed TLC complaints about drivers who refused to take a trip from even Lower Manhattan to DUMBO.

I live in Manhattan now, and after a series of extremely bad Yellow Taxi rides, have given up and switched to using Lyft.

Uber/Lyft/et al are clearly using investors' funds to subsidize their businesses. And it's completely irrelevant to me as a consumer. I need to get from one point to another in a safe, economical manner, and NYC's Yellow Taxi fleet is failing at that.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#53

Post by ghaff »

isostatic wrote: post #41
ghaff wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would seem to be a very urbanite view of the world. A lot of people have good reasons for owning their own personalized vehicle. (Gear, kids, mobile storage locker, etc.) So long as you live somewhere with enough space that storing a vehicle isn't expensive/difficult, given that most of the costs are in mileage, it's hard to see most people giving up ownership. And, in any case, full door to door autonomy, in at…

Kids is a big thing -- needing specific car seats means taxis are out until your kids are 12. That said the average car costs $34k in the US and lasts say 10 years, that's $3,400 a year. Maintenence, taxes, etc another $1500 at least, that's $5k/yr before you move an inch. While automatic cars may not get rid of everything, many 2 or 3 car families, especially in the suburbs, may drop to 1.

Your last point is certainly true. Even today, I know people who would have been stereotypical two-car households who now get by with one car + Uber/Lyft/Zipcar/etc. The various services available today definitely make a difference at the margin of one car vs. two cars or barely need to own a car.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#54

Post by rockshassa »

throwaway_80bf3 wrote: post #7

7 years ago you'd have to jump into a yellow cab before telling the rider if you were going from Manhattan to Brooklyn or Brooklyn to Brooklyn. If you told them before you got in, they'd speed off. You used to have to walk to arterial roads in hopes of finding a yellow cab (in the outer boroughs). That is if you lived in neighborhoods that the article points out now skews towards Lyft. Well to do, post gentrification…

another Brooklynite here. this is 100% true. You absolutely needed to "trick" the driver into letting you into the car. I've had taxis drive off, or refuse to let me in. When I was in the car, they would say they can't take me to my destination because their "shift was ending" and they had to go in a different direction. Many of these incidents happened in the LES, which is right next to the bridge I had to cross!

Taxi drivers also never know the destination, I got pretty good at giving my directions speech (to a well known neighborhood)

And taxis cost more!

As far as I'm concerned, the old way of hailing can rot, the old taxis can rot. they can't hold a candle to uber, and they'll never be able to become competitive on price or quality given the cost of a medallion.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#55

Post by mattmanser »

ghaff wrote: post #36
specialist wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance... How can Uber not support an area? If a both a driver and a passenger in Goldsport Wyoming both have their apps installed, they can't transact?

I think he's saying there just isn't much driver availability. I live 40 miles outside of Boston and whenever I've looked there has been little or nothing available. Uber and Lyft might as well effectively not exist in my town although, yes, I can fire up the app and request a ride.

Yes, if you go 5 miles outside of Nottingham city centre, you're usually not getting an Uber back. Unless there happens to be one dropping someone off. It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem.

At least with other private hire firms you can phone them up and they'll be there in 10-20 minutes rather than just saying no drivers available.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#56

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ghaff wrote: post #35
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some places where brands like Uber is extremely valuable, like Manila, where taxis are very apt to rip off free-off-the plane foreigners. Heck, most of SE Asia (there are local services also, but I’d rather not track them down before each trip).

That may be the case but my point was that hopping off-the-plane in SE Asia and grabbing a cab is not such a routine occurrence for most Westerners as to be a viable business model for VC-backed companies.

There are many western cultures who travel more than Americans. Much of Norway migrates to Thailand during the winter, for example. As for viability, you might be right, but global ride sharing services have been a game changing feature for me. Even at a premium, it would still be a useful service.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#57

Post by seanmcdirmid »

isostatic wrote: post #49
ghaff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be the case but my point was that hopping off-the-plane in SE Asia and grabbing a cab is not such a routine occurrence for most Westerners as to be a viable business model for VC-backed companies.

Outside of america, how many people routinely travel by taxi/rideshare/etc. In my experience, most locals take public transport. The international businessperson (on expenses) is a large market -- look at the size of the market for hotels, airlines, etc. The one place I see taxis in use as mass transit by normal people is Singapore, where they are mostly ubiquitous (in the centre) and cheap. Even then getting a taxi…

China: taxis and ride sharing is extremely popular with the middle class. "Most locals" do take public transit, but given 10 million people in Beijing alone, some is still a large number.

Most developing Asian economies have thriving taxi industries where taking a taxi isn't considered a niche service/extreme luxury. Heck, taxis were never that popular in America, nowhere near how they were popular in China in even 1999.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#58

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ghaff wrote: post #40
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Urbanization rates continue to rise, what is true yesterday might not be true tomorrow. Also, in much of the world this doesn’t hold even today. The USA (and to a lesser extent Canada and Australia) are unique in private car oriented culture.

The United States is indeed near the top of the list in percentage of car ownership, but it's pretty high in most of the developed world. Arguably, there's less of a "private car oriented culture" elsewhere but most adults still own cars nonetheless. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-...

Yes, and they often pay a lot more for parking as well as for things like tolls; let's also not forget the cost of the cars themselves, which can be much more expensive than the states (e.g. Denmark, Singapore) or have crazy fast depreciation rates (e.g. Japan). The economics of these different markets are very Unamerican.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#59

Post by Endy »

See, I guess I'm funny about cabs. For my lifestyle, I mostly ride the MTA - buses, subway, etc. I plan based on that cost and timing. When I've had an interview and needed to take a direct above ground route, I always take a yellow cab. I also make it very visible to the driver that I'm photographing the driver's number and name before I enter the vehicle. I don't do Uber/Lyft because I don't trust their consumer protections as much as I do those from the City or the T&LC.

Of course, I also have a prepaid phone & I have no desire to waste my data on hailing a cab. And I prefer to pay in cash where possible.

Re: Ride-hailing’s NYC dominance, and the impact of DeleteUber

#60

Post by cletus »

mattmanser wrote: post #55
ghaff wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he's saying there just isn't much driver availability. I live 40 miles outside of Boston and whenever I've looked there has been little or nothing available. Uber and Lyft might as well effectively not exist in my town although, yes, I can fire up the app and request a ride.

Yes, if you go 5 miles outside of Nottingham city centre, you're usually not getting an Uber back. Unless there happens to be one dropping someone off. It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. At least with other private hire firms you can phone them up and they'll be there in 10-20 minutes rather than just saying no drivers available.

This surprises and confuses me. As just one anecdote, I got an Uber from a ranch 50 miles outside of Austin back to Austin once.
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