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Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

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Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#91

Post by ABrandt »

AlexC04 wrote: post #36
byoung2 wrote: post #15

I hate it when people equate piracy with theft...it's copyright infringement, not theft. If someone breaks into my car and steals my iPod, that's theft. I, the original owner, no longer possess the item. If instead the "thief" breaks into my car and copies all of the music from my iPod (let's say that all of the songs are recordings of my band to make things simple) and posts it on several torrent trackers, that's pi…

| Since all of these songs are always instantly available | to me, these artists are still within reach, even the | one-hit-wonders from yesteryear. If I hadn't downloaded | Fastball's "Outta My Head" back in 1998, I would never | have gone to see them perform at the Viper Room in 2008 | (it was the illegal download of a B-side that made me | appreciate them more than hearing "The Way" on the | radio). While that may…

Let's imagine that for some reason at YC11 a band shows up. In their pitch meeting PG and team feel suitably Rocked and Rolled so he decides to throw in the seed money for their studio time. The terms are that YC gets to keep 80% of the money from record sales (come to think of it, this happened on an episode of Dragon's Den UK). You download the song. Go to the concert. What happens to the share owned by YC? Do they make money? Do they deserve money?

You're addressing a whole other issue here. First off, there is a movement among record labels to grab a portion of revenues beyond record sales (the 360-deal [1]).

Second, you raise the question of whether record labels are needed at all in the first place. Similar to bootstrapping a startup, a musician can take a very DIY approach to their careers. In fact, one could argue that a musician is virtually identical to an entrepreneur. They build their band/company by creating music/a product that fans/people want.

Startups are incredibly cheap to do today because of changes in technology--open source, cloud computing, etc etc. In that same regard, starting out as a musician does not require the millions of dollars from Warner Bros. execs that it once did either. Digital Audio Workstations (DAWs) can produce quality recordings, social networks allow for cheap marketing, CD pressing isn't required for distribution, and on and on and on.

As "founders", musicians deserve to be rewarded for their work. Not to be screwed over by record labels ("VCs")[2]#.

---

# I am in no way suggesting that VCs regularly screw over startup founders

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/360_deal

[2]http://www.negativland.com/albini.html

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#92

Post by NateLawson »

byoung2 wrote: post #15

I hate it when people equate piracy with theft...it's copyright infringement, not theft. If someone breaks into my car and steals my iPod, that's theft. I, the original owner, no longer possess the item. If instead the "thief" breaks into my car and copies all of the music from my iPod (let's say that all of the songs are recordings of my band to make things simple) and posts it on several torrent trackers, that's pi…

The problem is there have not been big enough studies into the effects of piracy. It's very difficult to control for the various factors such as the overall economy, purchasing reasons, packaging and ease of use, etc.

Anecdotally, it appears to vary widely from person-to-person, year, type of content, etc. But I find it interesting that technology-minded people tend to emphasize the positive aspects without any real evidence that on the whole they outweigh the negative. You've never bought $1 DVDs on the corner, but it's very common for others.

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#93

Post by jeromec »

petercooper wrote: post #87
jeromec wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mean to get into the semantics of "theft". If you notice, I said "To me I'd consider that theft". What is significant, I believe, is the moral weight of categorizing it as theft, rather than specific technical definitions and jurisdictions. I believe the same context is meant by the Obama administration's choice of words. We are at a time in history for which there is no precedent for all the things we are a…

OK, I appreciate your argument now :) It is cool for you to frame things within your own value system and I can't argue against your opinion, but it's a shame that the executive branch is being lax with the definitions of words that have special definitions in their realm.

I think they're trying to be very clear about how they view digital piracy. It's like Bush trumpeting "terrorists" or "axis of evil". You can apply a terrorist label broadly or narrowly to a person, but there is little doubt about how seriously the govt. might take action based on such a word. I think it's a similar thing here with the word "theft". If existing laws don't hold up to what they feel is fair and just, they may seek to craft new ones that do.

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#94

Post by byoung2 »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #28
byoung2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I download the mp3 copy of a CD I own a physical copy of, am I a criminal? Did I steal from the artist? To the first question, I would say that you are guilty of copyright infringement. Compare it to buying a bootleg DVD of a DVD that you already own that was scratched and is now unplayable, or sneaking in to watch the re-release of Avatar now that you own it on Blu-Ray. To the second, no you haven't stolen anythi…

How could he be guilty of copyright infringement when courts have ruled it is legal to have a digital backup of your media? If he copied the mp3s from a friend who ripped the CD as a short-cut, would you still see him as guilty of piracy? I'm sorry, but that viewpoint is ludicrous, but I'm sure the RIAA loves that they've wired people to feel that way. Makes their extortion much easier. (And, yes, I do believe in pay…

* it is legal to have a digital backup of your media*

I was referring to the act of downloading the mp3 from a website vs ripping the cd directly to your computer. Similar to the situation of growing your own pot for personal use vs buying it from a drug dealer.

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#95

Post by leviathant »

_ouxp wrote: post #31
leviathant wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in 1999, there were a lot of people who took the position of "Doesn't matter if it's Gore or Bush, they're both just as bad." I'm pretty sure no one who had that sentiment before still holds that notion. It's a lot better than if we elected McCain/Palin, yes.

While I'm no fan of George W. Bush, it's hard to hypothesize about a past that never happened. So while not many people have that sentiment today, that's only because we picked one and didn't get to see what the other would've done.

While sometimes it's hard to hypothesize, there are other times when you've done enough research on the topic to make a very astute guess.

I imagine that, by now, you've read The Onion's absurdly prescient "Bush: 'Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over'" from January 17, 2001 -- http://www.theonion.com/articles/bush-our-long-national-nigh...

Maybe I have different ideals than the original poster that I replied to, but I feel confident in saying that yes, we are better off not having elected McCain/Palin.

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#96

Post by hga »

jbooth wrote: post #20
flash2024 wrote: post #13

Printing money to give to bankers is also flat, unadulterated theft.

Pop quiz: Which administration passed TARP?

Bonus question: Which Senator who became a President voted for it?

(Cheet sheet: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_c...)

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#97

Post by byoung2 »

AlexC04 wrote: post #36
byoung2 wrote: post #15

I hate it when people equate piracy with theft...it's copyright infringement, not theft. If someone breaks into my car and steals my iPod, that's theft. I, the original owner, no longer possess the item. If instead the "thief" breaks into my car and copies all of the music from my iPod (let's say that all of the songs are recordings of my band to make things simple) and posts it on several torrent trackers, that's pi…

| Since all of these songs are always instantly available | to me, these artists are still within reach, even the | one-hit-wonders from yesteryear. If I hadn't downloaded | Fastball's "Outta My Head" back in 1998, I would never | have gone to see them perform at the Viper Room in 2008 | (it was the illegal download of a B-side that made me | appreciate them more than hearing "The Way" on the | radio). While that may…

In this case, the record label and by extension the employees of the record label lost out on their share of the $1 you should arguably have spent on the track. (assuming an itunes download at approximately market price).

The year was 1998, and there was no iTunes. My only other alternative was to buy the full CD at $12-17. As a poor college student, I could only afford to buy maybe 3 CD's a year, and Fastball's album would not have been one of them. I would therefore never have heard the song (or paid for it) and never would have gone to the Viper room.

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#98

Post by bediger »

tvon wrote: post #83
bediger wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can steal an idea, for example. How so? I can't even really write about it without getting mired in semantics, but here goes... Suppose, one icy winter, I see you scraping your car's windows with an inverted plastic coffee mug. I'm having a lot of trouble with my store-bought flat, shovel-shaped scraper. I copy your idea: I bring a plastic mug out to my car, and use that mug to scrape frost off my car's windows…

You steal an idea by passing it off as your own.

A facile answer.

How can you tell if I invented the circular ice scraper, or the folks who hold a patent on it invented it? If they invented it, why do I still scrape frost and ice off my car's windshield with a yellow plastic coffee mug, manufactured by "Tupperware"?

Re: Obama administration: "Piracy is flat, unadulterated theft"

#99

Post by jbooth »

hga wrote: post #96
jbooth wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pop quiz: Which administration passed TARP?

Bonus question: Which Senator who became a President voted for it? (Cheet sheet: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_c... )

Sigh. Lots of senators voted for it, because at that point in time, with everything falling down around our ears, it was the safest move, flaws and all. That particular situation was actually bad enough that a majority of Congress forgot about partisan silliness for a second. Unbelievable, I know. Last I knew, the overwhelming majority of the money had been paid back.

Anyways, score 1 point for you, you can take that one right on to Fox News.

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