‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’ • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#161

Post by underwater » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 1:43 AM UTC

SolarNet wrote: post #135

aetherson wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just that. Look, let's say a Tesla, oh, just as a random example, careens directly into a clearly visible truck because its cameras can't distinguish white trucks from bright sunny skies, killing "my daughter Susie." In this hypothetical, this is a truly autonomous Tesla, and overall, these truly autonomous Teslas are less crash-prone than the human average. As Susie's dad, my argument is that this accident…

But that's the difference of being against self driving cars, and a specific model of a car (for which it's manufacturer is liable). The OP was saying, to use your analogy, we still use doctors in the U.S. because it changed deaths from medical problems from like 90% to 400,000 people killed every year by accident.

It’s not about the manafacturer. There isn’t a ledger where lives saved can be balanced against lives taken.

Lives saved is effectively transparent. If you are only acknowledged for negative outcomes then you’re incentivised to not play the game.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#162

Post by balfirevic » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 1:51 AM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #110

maushu wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Susie parents it's basically: "A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."

It's not just that. Look, let's say a Tesla, oh, just as a random example, careens directly into a clearly visible truck because its cameras can't distinguish white trucks from bright sunny skies, killing "my daughter Susie." In this hypothetical, this is a truly autonomous Tesla, and overall, these truly autonomous Teslas are less crash-prone than the human average. As Susie's dad, my argument is that this accident…

I don't think you should be able to win that lawsuit against the doctor unless there was actual negligence on doctor's part.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#163

Post by bobthepanda » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 1:59 AM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #149

bobthepanda wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue is that the MTA and its predecessors have always been dependent on one person (now the Governor, formerly the Mayor). The actual board members have no credibility and no accountability, hence why we are here today. The MTA would be much better off if the appointed representative of the county was replaced with the actual elected executive of said county (so county executives, borough presidents, mayor/…

It's never been "entirely" dependent of one person, although the majority control seems to be the Governor. Either through his direct 5 seat appointments or indirectly through the 7 other non-NYC seats. I don't believe it was ever under Mayoral control. The current governance structure came under then Gvernor Nelson Rockefeller. But anyway Nassau, Suffolk, Westcheste, Dutchess, Orange, Rockland, and Putnam counties e…

I am referring to the state of the subway and buses under the NYC Board of Transportation, which was similarly a giant incompetent mess.

The distinction to make is that the counties and the City get to recommend the appointees for their slots to the Governor. It's a formality most of the time, but the Governor or State Legislature could tell the mayor or county executives to "try again".

As far as that last point, it's important to understand why the MTA was created in the first place; its primary mission is to dole out the goodies from the State and the tolled crossings to its subsidiaries. What they know about the system is at best, secondary to the job, since they are, by and large, not the people who run the system. That's why they appoint chairmen and agency presidents and all that.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#164

Post by matt_smith123 » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 2:06 AM UTC

Guys like this will be running the self driving automobile infrastructure in 50 years.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#165

Post by chrismorgan » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 2:11 AM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #26

But there is one type of delay that’s gotten exponentially worse during that time: a catchall category blandly titled “insufficient capacity, excess dwell, unknown,” which captures every delay without an obvious cause. This smacks of corruption or of elements of society deciding that systems aren't going to simply work anymore. The population of New York City when I lived in Queens was 7.3 million when I lived there…

Do take congestion into account; something that can run perfectly smoothly at 90% of capacity may severely struggle at 96% and basically grind to a halt by 99%. It’s not linear.

(I am not stating that congestion plays any part in it, but you can’t simply write it off.)

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#166

Post by avinium » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 2:27 AM UTC

vnj23iwe wrote: post #147

DiabloD3 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fire everyone. However, if I remember correctly, they're unionized, which is why this hasn't happened yet.

Fire everyone at Agency A for shitty behavior. Then turn around and realize everyone at Agency B is cooking the books, so fire them. And so on. Then turn around and realize basically every large institution humans have ever built relies on shady, selfish, behavior and stop caring about reforming individuals since thousands of years of policing have done jack and squat to remove the behavior from the species. Seriousl…

Not saying I disagree with you - but assuming what you say is true, what would you propose?

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#167

Post by aqme28 » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 2:34 AM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #6

We, collectively, seem to accept car accidents because we think we can avoid them with good driving skills. Train accidents leave us helpless, and we can’t cope with that. The whole concept of ”bad things happen to good people for no reason” is extremely hard to bear. Somehow this reminds me of people who believe the right diet will protect them from cancer, the right prenatal care from birth defects, etc.

The "Just World phenomenon." You also see it when people blame the victim in a lot of cases. "I wonder what they did to deserve that!"

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#168

Post by epc » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 2:51 AM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #44

This article has a lot of text before getting to describing the problem. Summary: Train wreck 1995 and a installation of a safety-first, CYA response that slows down the trains and does not increase safety. Longer Summary: Train wreck in 1995. Maybe driver was asleep. Start installing new signals that not only automatically stop the trains when there is a train ahead (good idea and already in place), but also when go…

The article glosses over that there were three train-on-train collisions in 1995, and a couple earlier in the 1990s. There was another incident when an IRT sped too fast through Union Square (there's a significant bend in Union Square for the 4/5/6 trains) and derailed.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#169

Post by dkarl » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 2:55 AM UTC

But the 2014 study — the first time the authority had attempted to analyze the impact of any of the revamped signals, using its improved data system — found 2,851 lost total passenger hours per weekday could be attributed to thirteen modified signals alone.

That's 84 person-years per year, just considering the weekday impact of those thirteen signals. Over a lifetime a year, to save (speculatively) one life per decade? Call me callous, but I don't think it's worth it.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#170

Post by innocenat » Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 2:59 AM UTC

gsnedders wrote: post #120

azernik wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, this is my understanding of how most non-US high-speed-rail controllers work - the driver sets a target speed, the physical location on the track has a maximum speed, and the traffic system looks at the cars ahead and sets its own maximum speed (e.g. zero when another train is right in front of you). Instead of stopping the train when the driver exceeds the speed limit, it just uses the minimum of all the tar…

TVM is the system I'm most familiar with when it comes to HSR (used on the LGV in France and HS1 in the UK); it has a variable overspeed allowance (5 to 15 km/h depending on current maximum speed). If you exceed that, an emergency brake application occurs.

Japanese ATC and ATS-P, used on all Shinkansen lines and most busy metro/commuter lines, just apply service break until the train is under back speed limit. AFAIK no overspeed allowance.