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‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

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Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#11

Post by stefan_ »

nikanj wrote: post #6

We, collectively, seem to accept car accidents because we think we can avoid them with good driving skills. Train accidents leave us helpless, and we can’t cope with that. The whole concept of ”bad things happen to good people for no reason” is extremely hard to bear. Somehow this reminds me of people who believe the right diet will protect them from cancer, the right prenatal care from birth defects, etc.

I don't think that is the crucial difference. In a train or plane crash, hundreds die in a single event. But when a hundred people die in a hundred car crashes every day, the individual event is barely worth a mention on page 6 of the news.

It's the same mentality that means we have root cause analysis for plane and train crashes but for a car crash, SOP is pretty much to blame 1) whoever died or 2) noone at all, and 3) never the infrastructure.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#12

Post by guardiangod »

arzt wrote: post #4
wccrawford wrote: post #2

There's an attempt to make this all sound like a conspiracy, but it all makes sense to me. There were accidents. They slowed the train to improve safety. The train is about as safe as ever. Why? Many, many more people are using than the trains than before. It's harder to keep that many people safe, so more caution is warranted. The only problem I see, if it's true, is that they classified delays stemming from mainten…

More importantly, they used the overcrowding excuse as a means to raise $800mm+ from New York taxpayers. If this capital wasn't necessary given the problems they cited were non-existent, this amounts to fraud.

That's not a really fair way to put it as the signaling system is still the root cause of the slowdown.

1. Outdated signaling system cannot handle current load at high safety threshold

2. Network could not upgrade signaling system due to lack of money

3. Network responses by slowing down critical paths and putting in more locks

4. System capacity drops

So yeah, you still need the money to fix slow things.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#13

Post by waqf »

stefan_ wrote: post #11
nikanj wrote: post #6

We, collectively, seem to accept car accidents because we think we can avoid them with good driving skills. Train accidents leave us helpless, and we can’t cope with that. The whole concept of ”bad things happen to good people for no reason” is extremely hard to bear. Somehow this reminds me of people who believe the right diet will protect them from cancer, the right prenatal care from birth defects, etc.

I don't think that is the crucial difference. In a train or plane crash, hundreds die in a single event. But when a hundred people die in a hundred car crashes every day, the individual event is barely worth a mention on page 6 of the news. It's the same mentality that means we have root cause analysis for plane and train crashes but for a car crash, SOP is pretty much to blame 1) whoever died or 2) noone at all, and…

Not only are car crashes less salient than train crashes, but also the converse effect: the inconvenience of car speed limits is more salient than the inconvenience of train speed limits, because you're the one driving.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#15

Post by tomohawk »

DamonHD wrote: post #10
arzt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, they used the overcrowding excuse as a means to raise $800mm+ from New York taxpayers. If this capital wasn't necessary given the problems they cited were non-existent, this amounts to fraud.

Well, fraud only if it were deliberately misleading. It seems highly likely that the MTA believes what it is saying, even if it happens to be misguided, and driven by the right motivations.

It's either fraud (deliberate) or incompetence bordering on fraud. They have declining ridership, yet are claiming increasing overcrowding.

In either case, probably time to clean house and get rid of the "better safe than sorry" crowd.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#16

Post by joncrane »

smilekzs wrote: post #14

Risking asking the obvious: What is stopping us from having autonomous subways, considering we are almost gonna have autonomous cars?

Poor initial implementation combined with fear.

The DC Metro used to have a semi-autonomous mode that's been turned off for years since there was a glitch that caused a crash.

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#18

Post by Totoradio »

smilekzs wrote: post #14

Risking asking the obvious: What is stopping us from having autonomous subways, considering we are almost gonna have autonomous cars?

It's already a thing, first example that comes to mind is line 14 in the Paris metro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_M%C3%A9tro_Line_14

Re: ‘The Trains Are Slower Because They Slowed the Trains Down’

#19

Post by t3po7re5 »

smilekzs wrote: post #14

Risking asking the obvious: What is stopping us from having autonomous subways, considering we are almost gonna have autonomous cars?

DC Metro use to but then there was a major accident that resulted in them reversing the system. They plan to eventually make them driverless in the future.
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