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A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

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Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#61

Post by AstralStorm »

tlb wrote: post #56
prepend wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming there is a cost, the trade off is reduced money to your heirs or charity. So while it is non-zero, that doesn’t mean it’s worth the cost. That’s why I brought up backups. Remember Zip drives for backup? Imagine if there was no reader at time of launch. And how likely it was to build the reader without any changes to spec that the existing Zip disk could be used to restore without any problems. Even with read…

Would you pay 5% of your net worth for a 10% chance of recovery?

10% chance of recovery when? You can't talk about probability of a continuous unbounded time process without specifying a timeframe. Otherwise you end up with 100% or 0% as only possible answers.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#62

Post by prepend »

lev99 wrote: post #32
nmeofthestate wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>likely to be a very expensive process. Obviously it's a huge punt with no guarantee of success, but I would think that in a future that supports such a procedure, the concept of "expensive" won't exist to the same degree as it does now.

Current trends show a future with a higher population and more income inequality. This describes a world where "expensive" is still a thing. I'm not saying you are incorrect about the future, just pointing out it's against several long term trends.

Current trends show a stabilizing population around 11 billion just after 2100.

Income inequality and “expensive” are not exclusive. If the median income is $1B in current dollars with lots of zettanaires (10^21 vs 10^9 for bikkionaires) you will have high income inequality but still have plenty with few things expensive.

Income inequality, with no other info, is not necessarily bad.

https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#63

Post by omegaworks »

savanaly wrote: post #51
PeanutNore wrote: post #42

“Burdening future generations with our brain banks is just comically arrogant. Aren’t we leaving them with enough problems?” Hendricks told me this week after reviewing Nectome’s website. “I hope future people are appalled that in the 21st century, the richest and most comfortable people in history spent their money and resources trying to live forever on the backs of their descendants. I mean, it’s a joke, right? Th…

I don't feel too bad about it. If economic growth stays even slightly positive it won't take too many generations for our descendants to be unimaginably more wealthy than we are. They can put up with our brain banks and dry their tears with their one dollar notes that are worth $1,000 in 2018 dollars.

>their one dollar notes that are worth $1,000 in 2018 dollars.

The fed would never allow this to happen. That would be deflation.

What we should pray for is $0.25 loaves of bread, $10 rent, and a $1000 minimum wage.

We want a future where human time is valued and basic resources are plentiful enough to be cheap for everyone.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#64

Post by acrefoot »

prepend wrote: post #43
acrefoot wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backup is a misnomer here--it's a fixation of the biological tissues. So the format for preservation matches the structure of the original neural tissue down do the nanometer scale, which is a format nature has deemed appropriate to stabilize on the time scales we care about. I agree that there's research to be done, which is why we're not offering a product at this time, and may not for years. I would say that even…

Then why even say it requires euthanasia. If they are still researching it, would you want a non-destructive scan as the end functionality.

Honestly? Because we are new at press, and were pressed for how we might offer it in the near term.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#65

Post by rhombocombus »

This sounds just like the transcardial perfusion that I used to do on hamsters and rats in graduate school. After doing and witnessing hundreds of those I think I will pass, I'd rather rot. What's wrong with dying? I am a huge fan of living and of life, but as cool as it sounds to have my consciousness reconstituted in some server closet, being perfused with formalin (and whatever else) before I'm technically dead is not something I place a high level of confidence in working, and it also makes me viscerally uncomfortable.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#66

Post by 100k »

dontreact wrote: post #5

Reconstructing a human in silico from a dead brain is likely to be a very expensive process. Why would anyone in the future be interested in going through with it for any more than a few select old brains when there will be plenty of dead brains to go around at that time?

Charles Sheffield wrote a novel based on this premise.

"[H]e devotes all his energies for a decade prior to his freezing, in becoming an expert primary source on the musically notable people of his era. Assuming that if you become the world's foremost expert in any subject, and given infinite time, someone will want to write a book on that exact subject."

If I recall correctly, the protagonist intentionally leaves tantalizing bits out of his books, so future historians will want to wake him up to ask him personally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomorrow_and_Tomorrow_(novel)

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#67

Post by OscarCunningham »

kaizendad wrote: post #28

Seems like a big bet on the concept that the physical structure of the brain preserves enough information to resurrect a consciousness. If electrical transmissions are at all required, then this would render a brain nothing more than an amusing curio. Although, given that their target market is already those planning to be euthanized, I suppose the tradeoff of one's brain being an amusing curio vs. one's brain being…

>If electrical transmissions are at all required, then this would render a brain nothing more than an amusing curio.

That fact that people sometimes survive lightning strikes and epileptic fits suggests that normal brain activity can be restarted after a disruption.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#68

Post by OscarCunningham »

PeanutNore wrote: post #42

“Burdening future generations with our brain banks is just comically arrogant. Aren’t we leaving them with enough problems?” Hendricks told me this week after reviewing Nectome’s website. “I hope future people are appalled that in the 21st century, the richest and most comfortable people in history spent their money and resources trying to live forever on the backs of their descendants. I mean, it’s a joke, right? Th…

I'm sure most of us spend more than $10000 each year on prolonging our lives (food and rent). It doesn't seem very selfish to do it just once more.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#69

Post by OscarCunningham »

dontreact wrote: post #5

Reconstructing a human in silico from a dead brain is likely to be a very expensive process. Why would anyone in the future be interested in going through with it for any more than a few select old brains when there will be plenty of dead brains to go around at that time?

You can leave money to be paid to whoever revives you. The money will be invested so as to not lose value. Eventually the cost of revival will fall below the reward, and you'll be revived.

Obviously several things could go wrong, but the plan isn't obviously doomed.

Re: A startup is pitching a mind-uploading service that is “100 percent fatal”

#70

Post by OscarCunningham »

omegaworks wrote: post #53

Michael Hendricks' take is the best: > “Burdening future generations with our brain banks is just comically arrogant. Aren’t we leaving them with enough problems?” Hendricks told me this week after reviewing Nectome’s website. “I hope future people are appalled that in the 21st century, the richest and most comfortable people in history spent their money and resources trying to live forever on the backs of their desc…

Are you equally outraged by people who spend $10000 on other leisure activities?
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