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Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

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Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#1
They treat you like you're the best man on the planet when you're making them money right. But what what do they do when things go south? What is the best way to deal with them?

Do they force you to sell every asset? What about IP? What about virtual assets? source code? Will they make you take pennies on the dollar?

I have heard horrible stories about this, so I am curious about your stories.

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#2
You're probably not going to care about the (likely negligible) value of your "IP" and source code if you've failed after taking an A-round, since liquidation preferences will dwarf them.

If you reach a point where you can sell your IP at a number where you actually net some cash, I'd call that a "success".

In the one VC-funded failure I was closely associated with (as a true cofounder), nobody gave a shit about the physical assets.

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#3
Their business model assumes most of their investment doesn't take off, with a few rock stars that make up for the losses.

Incidentally, which is one reason cash flow positive startups should really think before accepting VC money. VC's are happy with a 10% success rate. You on the other hand, need a 100% success rate. Interests are not wholly aligned.

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#4
post #2

You're probably not going to care about the (likely negligible) value of your "IP" and source code if you've failed after taking an A-round, since liquidation preferences will dwarf them. If you reach a point where you can sell your IP at a number where you actually net some cash, I'd call that a "success". In the one VC-funded failure I was closely associated with (as a true cofounder), nobody gave a shit about the…

What if its a company with over 4 years, some sucesses but now into bankrupcy?

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#5
post #3

Their business model assumes most of their investment doesn't take off, with a few rock stars that make up for the losses. Incidentally, which is one reason cash flow positive startups should really think before accepting VC money. VC's are happy with a 10% success rate. You on the other hand, need a 100% success rate. Interests are not wholly aligned.

So you're saying that the founders should be wary that VC's aren't as risk-averse in this sense?

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#6
post #4
post #2

You're probably not going to care about the (likely negligible) value of your "IP" and source code if you've failed after taking an A-round, since liquidation preferences will dwarf them. If you reach a point where you can sell your IP at a number where you actually net some cash, I'd call that a "success". In the one VC-funded failure I was closely associated with (as a true cofounder), nobody gave a shit about the…

What if its a company with over 4 years, some sucesses but now into bankrupcy?

Once the company is considered a loss they want to get as much of their money back as quickly as possible. What else would you expect from them?

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#7
post #6
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if its a company with over 4 years, some sucesses but now into bankrupcy?

Once the company is considered a loss they want to get as much of their money back as quickly as possible. What else would you expect from them?

What if a product that costed us to develop was over $100,000, and I am getting an offer to buy it for $1,000? And we have many products like this example (close to 20)

Is it normal they will literally force you to sell it for pennies on the dollar? I understand that it was their money, how would you handle it? Just sell it and move over to the next thing?

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#8
post #5
post #3

Their business model assumes most of their investment doesn't take off, with a few rock stars that make up for the losses. Incidentally, which is one reason cash flow positive startups should really think before accepting VC money. VC's are happy with a 10% success rate. You on the other hand, need a 100% success rate. Interests are not wholly aligned.

So you're saying that the founders should be wary that VC's aren't as risk-averse in this sense?

No, he's saying the VCs are much less risk-averse.

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#9
post #2

You're probably not going to care about the (likely negligible) value of your "IP" and source code if you've failed after taking an A-round, since liquidation preferences will dwarf them. If you reach a point where you can sell your IP at a number where you actually net some cash, I'd call that a "success". In the one VC-funded failure I was closely associated with (as a true cofounder), nobody gave a shit about the…

As far as monetary value of the IP/source-code I agree, but I know one failed company whose founders are now extremely regretful of the whole situation, because they produced a bunch of interesting stuff that's now locked up. They'd like to open-source it so what they spent 7 years of their life on can at least influence other software, get them some recognition, and maybe be used by someone, but the investors aren't willing to, and aren't willing to sell it for anything close to the market value (which is pretty close to zero). There isn't really any prospect of a buyer, but from the investors' point of view, if they keep ownership of the IP of failed companies, they might get lucky with one of the IP bundles turning out to be valuable. Even if the chance is very small, it's at least a better chance than the guaranteed zero chance they'd have if they open-sourced it or sold it for peanuts today.

Re: Ask HN: How do VCs behave when you fail?

#10
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once the company is considered a loss they want to get as much of their money back as quickly as possible. What else would you expect from them?

What if a product that costed us to develop was over $100,000, and I am getting an offer to buy it for $1,000? And we have many products like this example (close to 20) Is it normal they will literally force you to sell it for pennies on the dollar? I understand that it was their money, how would you handle it? Just sell it and move over to the next thing?

It doesn't matter how much you spent to develop it. All that matters is how much it's worth. So if the highest offer you can get is $1,000, then offer to buy it for more ($1500).

If you can't afford to buy the assets yourself maybe you can find a new investor to buy the assets on your behalf.

Otherwise: yes, you should just move on.

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