Developer Survey Results • Hacker News Board

Re: Developer Survey Results

#151

Post by kamaal » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #146

> Most developers feel that management is ultimately most accountable for unethical results of code. Just under 20% of respondents said that a developer who writes code used for unethical purposes is most responsible. This kind of surprised me. On the one hand, we complain about being considered code monkeys and mere "implementors," but on the other hand, if we're asked to code something unethical, well "we're just f…

>>I personally think we, as a profession, need to kind of grow a backbone and step up our responsibility to no do harm.

Not possible in most companies where your career depends being a yes man to the management. You would be surprised how often doing the right thing gets people fired. Of course you could say 'grow spine' or whatever. But you can't suffer for ever in a ecosystem where everything is stacked against you.

At some point in putting food on the table takes precedence.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#152

Post by lightbyte » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:54 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #146

> Most developers feel that management is ultimately most accountable for unethical results of code. Just under 20% of respondents said that a developer who writes code used for unethical purposes is most responsible. This kind of surprised me. On the one hand, we complain about being considered code monkeys and mere "implementors," but on the other hand, if we're asked to code something unethical, well "we're just f…

I think that one result is a bit misleading.

79.6% said they consider the ethical implications of what they are asked to do.

82.3% said they would report ethical concerns in some form.

58.5% said they would refuse to write code they thought was not ethical (36.6% said they are unsure).

Re: Developer Survey Results

#153

Post by jhasse » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

tpush wrote: post #76

d3ckard wrote: post #39

I was seriously surprised how popular VSCode has become. I know it's good, but for MS to win IT crowd that fast... kudos.

Visual Studio Code + the cquery extension is heaven for me coding in C/C++.

Also checkout Clang-Format. It's so awesome to mark some unintended code and have it formatted instantly in your editor with a key press. All while editing the file via the Git diff view :)

Re: Developer Survey Results

#154

Post by erikb » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:55 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #43

jedberg wrote: post #5

With all the talk of Vim vs. Emacs, it surprises me that Emacs is in the low single digits, while Vim is 25% of all respondents. It does not surprise me that it is 40% (and #1) amongst sysadmin/devops practitioners.

Is there still a Vim vs Emacs debate? There was, 20 years ago, but Vim made an entree (renaissance?) outside the old school Unix crowd 5 or 10 years ago, and since then, Vim users vastly outnumber Emacs users (in my highly unscientific observations).

I'm certainly one of the Vim clique and I love a little religious infighting between communities. So I'm quite happy that this battle is ongoing. Just in another thread a few days ago HN community discussed about how much org-mode strengthens the interest in Emacs. And I have to say it's really great, if you can accept that everything happens in Emacs.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#155

Post by steveklabnik » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

purple-again wrote: post #140

steveklabnik wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are over 100 companies who are willing to put their logo on our website, and others we know about but can’t say, including Fortune 500 companies. Dropbox just went public and their project in Rust (and Go) was cited as a reason for their increased profitability. There have also been multiple university classes in Rust. It’s a start. (Also, this survey never claimed to be measuring either of those metrics...)

We have been using Rust in production for around 2 years now (yes its been a bumpy ride...) at a big stuffy old school finance company that I'm sorry doesn't want their logo on your website. The Rust code is not only mission critical, it is literally THE defining factor that has won us several very large contracts now. I make no attempt to compare Rust to other alternatives in its class, we chose it because we were d…

Glad to hear it!

Re: Developer Survey Results

#156

Post by codingdave » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

boffinism wrote: post #37

Note the salary graph that shows if you've got over 10 years experience you can either be an engineering manager (small cog in a big machine) and make a ton of money, or a CTO (big cog in probably a much smaller machine) and make 20% less.

That graph isn't showing years of experience vs. salary, it is showing average years of experience by role vs. salary. Most developers with more than 10 years experience are at the higher end (at least) of that graph, but those numbers just aren't what the graph represents.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#157

Post by ryandrake » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

lightbyte wrote: post #152

ryandrake wrote: post #146

> Most developers feel that management is ultimately most accountable for unethical results of code. Just under 20% of respondents said that a developer who writes code used for unethical purposes is most responsible. This kind of surprised me. On the one hand, we complain about being considered code monkeys and mere "implementors," but on the other hand, if we're asked to code something unethical, well "we're just f…

I think that one result is a bit misleading. 79.6% said they consider the ethical implications of what they are asked to do. 82.3% said they would report ethical concerns in some form. 58.5% said they would refuse to write code they thought was not ethical (36.6% said they are unsure).

Good point. I was also puzzled by that result, given the responses to the question I mentioned. The picture it paints is that software professionals feel their duty is to consider, complain, and (less so) refuse, but ultimately responsibility lies elsewhere.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#158

Post by kamaal » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

erikb wrote: post #150

mseebach wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim seems to be default installed on most Linux distributions, and Emacs isn't. If your work takes you across Linux servers, you're 99% sure to be "a Vim user" (in some capacity), regardless of what your daily programming environment is. I prefer Emacs to Vim, but I prefer Idea for Java development over either, so since I mostly work on java projects on Linux servers, I actually use Vim significantly more than Emacs.

Interesting that you feel you can use Vim to write Java. I love Vim, really. It's my most favorite editor of all time. But for Java I wouldn't want to miss the auto-complete, auto-import, debugging and fuzzy search features of an IDE.

If you are programming in Java most of the time. Vim and Emacs are both ruled for any serious work. Its just not possible to deal with that much verbosity without an IDE like Eclipse or IntelliJ.

Vim and Emacs are editors for languages where you do more thinking and less writing.

Re: Developer Survey Results

#159

Post by dwhabcdefg » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

As a queer female go programmer with over 15 years of programming experience, I did not realize how much of a statistical outlier I am. Neat. (I have trouble adopting the mantle of minority, as a well-paid middle-aged white person).

Re: Developer Survey Results

#160

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

conradfr wrote: post #61

Two unrelated remarks: I'm surprised that Elixir was the 6th most loved language last year and disappeared this time, while Erlang gained some points. Was it even in the survey? Also it's interesting that women placed compensation at 4th in "Differences in Assessing Jobs by Gender", but if you point that fact as a contributing factor for the pay gap you can be labeled as sexist.

[deleted]