Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#71

Post by ethagknight » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 12:57 PM UTC

danielvf wrote: post #47

Contrary to almost every comment here so far, this is both innovative and energy efficient. Let's talk energy efficiency first. Once it's up in the air, it's has a similar profile to a normal single engine airplane. A Cirrus SR22 can go 1,200 miles on 80 gallons of gas. That's roughly speaking 15 miles per gallon - better than many pickup trucks or large SUVs. And that's while going 180 mph. Slower is more fuel effic…

Agree with most of what you say, but two open questions- debt alone on $500k amounts to $180/day (10yr am, 6%). Then there’s cost of energy, dead time during recharge, dead leg trips to the next customer, dead let to charge port, maintenance will be rigorous even if the plane doesn’t need it because FAA. Landing fees while be high for urban landing points, plus ground crew at some locations. “Max $100/hr” is way low, even Uber sits around that level for a $30k vehicle with 2x the efficiency.

Second- I have a hard one understanding how this could approach the aerodynamics of a Cirrus. All those fans will be drag monsters.

And a little side fun note on rooftop landing pads- ideally, a high rise has expose cooling towers on the roof, taking up most available space. Any rooftop landing facility would have to be constructed over that, at phenomenal cost per foot. Developers expect to get repaid handsomely for that kind of capex. If you aren’t landing rooftop, you are landing at an alternate location X blocks away, which could be a real drag of the other kind..

There is DEFINITELY a market for this plane, and it’s bigger than current heli, but it’s probably not ubiquitous air taxi service

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#72

Post by product50 » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 12:57 PM UTC

Quanttek wrote: post #17

I must say I'm against this development. First of all, even if electric, this is certainly a very inefficient way of transportation that will 'waste' a lot of energy to transport maybe 4 people. The resulting price of this technology will result in the 99% stuck on the ground while the only te 1% can afford the fare. And even if it becomes a regular mode of transportation, do you really want these planes to fly over…

Typical cynical hacker news comment. Have you seen any numbers wrt mileage? Do you know if this will be debuted as a taxi which can transport users vs. something one can own? Have you seen any wrt emissions vs. a normal suv which carries a family of 4?

I am amazed how you can come to this conclusion without knowing anything about the product.

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#73

Post by FLUX-YOU » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 12:57 PM UTC

clon wrote: post #33

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #6

What's the long pointy bit that sticks out from the nose for?

A single pitot probe it seems, so no triple redundancy? Also cannot spot any angle of attack sensors or anti icing measures (perhaps electric?). I hope it has a BRS at least.. There are a lot of things in aviation written it blood. A lot of work hours sunk into inspecting the swiss cheese from every angle, until the light does not shine through. Not the most welcoming ground for "disruption". Still, even the most mod…

>Still, even the most modern autopilot will drop the controls to the pilot's lap almost routinely.

And is likely why their "you won't need a license to ride, because it's automated" line is going to disappear once the FAA notices this.

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#74

Post by Bromskloss » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 12:58 PM UTC

clon wrote: post #24

Quanttek wrote: post #17

I must say I'm against this development. First of all, even if electric, this is certainly a very inefficient way of transportation that will 'waste' a lot of energy to transport maybe 4 people. The resulting price of this technology will result in the 99% stuck on the ground while the only te 1% can afford the fare. And even if it becomes a regular mode of transportation, do you really want these planes to fly over…

I agree. People talking about flying cars sound a lot like people demanding faster horses. Or flying horses. I do not think the American dream of a private car scales too well to the future, be it with rubber wheels or tiny propellers. Especially given the population growth. Instead, a brief visit to Singapore, for example, will convince anyone what the future of transportation looks like. A public transport system,…

The point of flying cars is that they would be cool to fly. I mean, at least _if_ you get to fly them, as opposed to you just being their cargo.

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#75

Post by danielvf » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 12:58 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #6

What's the long pointy bit that sticks out from the nose for?

It is for measuring what the air is doing (speed/angle) before that air is affected by the aircraft. It is something that's almost every test aircraft has. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_X-planes#/media/File:G...

Once this data is gathered during the test program, the production aircraft can use less obvious sensors to measure what is going on.

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#76

Post by melling » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:03 PM UTC

raducu wrote: post #60

danielvf wrote: post #47

Contrary to almost every comment here so far, this is both innovative and energy efficient. Let's talk energy efficiency first. Once it's up in the air, it's has a similar profile to a normal single engine airplane. A Cirrus SR22 can go 1,200 miles on 80 gallons of gas. That's roughly speaking 15 miles per gallon - better than many pickup trucks or large SUVs. And that's while going 180 mph. Slower is more fuel effic…

Imagine being able to live 90 miles from a town and commuting in 30 minutes regadless of peak hours. As for the noise, if it can land vertically, I can immagine it making a steep descent on top of a tall building, unloading passengers and then autonomously taking off to pick somone else some other place.

Yeah, now imagine tens of thousands people an hour being able to do that.

I hear they have trains that can do this in far away lands. Trains that go 180 mph. Not in my backyard.

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#77

Post by mannykannot » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:05 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #45

naibafo wrote: post #34

> No traffic lights ? only as long as there are just a few flying around. Once there are some with crossing routes you will need air traffic city rules as well. I am really interested to see how that would pan out.

You don't need traffic lights on a 3D space. Air traffic rules are very different.

When your airplane is stacked in a holding pattern, waiting for clearance to land, it is essentially at a red light. If you and everyone else going to the same place are in electric airplanes, there is the potential for some real range anxiety.

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#78

Post by stephengillie » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:07 PM UTC

elago wrote: post #65

Jyaif wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know very well which source he's talking about. And he said say near infinite, precisely to defend against obnoxious commenters.

Could you please name the technology? I work with renewable energy and I have no idea. Are you talking about nuclear?

Ancestor comment is probably daydreaming about being in a Kardashev 2 civilization with a full Dyson Swarm collecting 100% of the Sun's total energy output, in all directions.

Some estimate we're currently only at Kardashev 0.8, harnessing about 80% of what energy from the Sun hits the Earth, while others argue that this percentage is much lower.

Ideas are easy, implementation is hard.

Edit for clarity.

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#79

Post by zeesh » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:10 PM UTC

Firstly, I commend them for getting the vision started more than anyone else I’ve seen. It’s a V1 commercial product and they seem to have the resources to iterate. That being said, it’s not a very aesthetic craft. Sadly, they didn’t figure out how not to have wings. It’s like they took a Cessna/Piper and threw on 6 electric motors on each wing and a big battery pack and called it a flying car. Their former hovercraft product was much cooler!

Re: Cora – Kitty Hawk's prototype air taxi [video]

#80

Post by jdavis703 » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

raducu wrote: post #60

danielvf wrote: post #47

Contrary to almost every comment here so far, this is both innovative and energy efficient. Let's talk energy efficiency first. Once it's up in the air, it's has a similar profile to a normal single engine airplane. A Cirrus SR22 can go 1,200 miles on 80 gallons of gas. That's roughly speaking 15 miles per gallon - better than many pickup trucks or large SUVs. And that's while going 180 mph. Slower is more fuel effic…

Imagine being able to live 90 miles from a town and commuting in 30 minutes regadless of peak hours. As for the noise, if it can land vertically, I can immagine it making a steep descent on top of a tall building, unloading passengers and then autonomously taking off to pick somone else some other place.

There will still be traffic if everyone is heading in to the same few spots. There's only so many spots these things will be able to land, not to mention they will need to maintain a certain amount of separation from other air traffic.