Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Would You Unschool Your Child?

unlimitedmagazine.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 121 posts

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#81

Post by geuis »

petercooper wrote: post #61

Because the article mentioned not memorizing the alphabet, I thought I could ask a question I've been pondering on a while. Beyond looking at print indexes and dictionaries, is there any compelling reason to learn the order of the alphabet anymore? Lists are often in alphabetical order but it's not a strict requirement to know the ordering to use those lists, and most datasets online have search. As do digital dictio…

I think teaching your kids the alphabet isn't asking for too much. And whatever you do, don't mix up the letter order.

I was unlucky enough when I was a young kid (5 or 6) to be enrolled at a school for a few weeks during the start of the year while my parents were moving. (We were staying with family in a different town than the one we were moving to).

The teacher started the year by helping us learn to read. I could already read a little at this point, some of the other kids couldn't yet. She went through this process by teaching random letters from the alphabet. x, b, and k one day, and g, p, s the next.

This confused the hell out of me. It also did no service to the other kids who were trying to learn. After a couple of weeks of me telling my parents about it seeing my reading comprehension actually getting worse, they pulled me from the school for the last week until we moved, if I remember correctly.

And to put this all in perspective, I have always been a voracious reader. There was barely a moment growing up that I can remember not being with a book. In school I was always at least 2-3 years ahead of most of my peers when it came to reading, language, etc. I'm lucky I didn't have to keep that one backwards teacher.

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#82

Post by pbhjpbhj »

marknutter wrote: post #23
joshkaufman wrote: post #10

My wife and I are expecting in December, and we're planning on some variation of unschooling for our children, starting at an early age. Based on the research we've done, it's a straightforward way to get better educational results for your kids if done properly. We're planning on some variation of the "Robinson Curriculum" ( http://www.robinsoncurriculum.com/ ), which in essence is a simple daily structure of (1) a…

I've never met a home-schooled kid who wasn't social awkward. I really hate the current education system, but I also recognize that the social skills developed there are almost as important as the formal education kids get.. perhaps even more so.

>I've never met a home-schooled kid who wasn't social awkward.

The few I've met who are I've tended to find a bit autistic. I know kids from several families (I'm not in the USA) that homeschool and the kids tend to interact a lot better than state-school kids with different age groups - toddlers through to adults.

However, none of those I know are single children AFAIR.

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#83

Post by mquander »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #78
mquander wrote: post #45

My contribution: If you're doing this, and you have a smart kid, for God's sake, buy a lot of books, buy every book you can think of and put it in your house. I can point at three quarters of my interests and trace them straight back to books I picked off the shelf when I was 10. My parents had a lot of books, but even so, I ended up having to re-read the ones that were interesting to me instead of pushing further an…

> I can point at three quarters of my interests and trace them straight back to books I picked off the shelf when I was 10. But that's largely because of your particular character another child (as you were) would have benefited little from the same books and been disengaged and miserable. Instead they might benefit from a bench, tools and materials that would lead them to gain skills that could bring them later into…

I agree, I bet that many children would benefit a great deal from that. Eight hours less at school is eight hours more time to expose a kid to as many cool things as possible.

That said, I think that encouraging a ton of reading of something is almost definitely going to be a good idea. Everyone with a mind should be reading.

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#84

Post by pbhjpbhj »

fr0sty wrote: post #28
marknutter wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never met a home-schooled kid who wasn't social awkward. I really hate the current education system, but I also recognize that the social skills developed there are almost as important as the formal education kids get.. perhaps even more so.

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'. Do you ask every non-awkward person you meet whether they were home-schooled? Do you ask every awkward person you meet whether they were home-schooled? Do you keep a running count? Sounds like sample and/or confirmation bias.

>The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

I've seen this a few times. I assume you mean anecdotes told by liars? Surely a plurality of true statements constitutes data? The strength of that data for interpretation or prediction is limited by the number of data points, for sure, but I don't really get why this aphorism is supposed to be true.

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#85

Post by pbhjpbhj »

dnsauve wrote: post #18

While I love the idea of homeschooling and unschooling, I can't quite figure out how people do this while still managing to pay their bills. Wouldn't this, in essence, take up a significant portion of your day, preventing you from working?

It's an extension of how you look after infants isn't it. If you have kids then how did you look after them before they reached school age? There you go.

If you chose not to look after them then I guess your question still stands.

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#86

Post by Retric »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #79
Retric wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, I was "homeschooled" from 4th through 8th grade. I don’t think the term “unschooled” really applied to me, but I was under minimal direction. From what I can remember, I generally read the required textbooks, fill out the workbooks, and by mid December and was left to my own devices the rest of the time. I suspect things where slightly more structured than that, but my mother has a double doctorate in education…

> From what I can remember, I generally read the required textbooks, fill out the workbooks, and by mid December and was left to my own devices the rest of the time. Required by whom?

The state, we got a free copy of the same textbooks used in each grade level. The only real limitation on homeschooler was continuing to score at or above grade level on the standardized tests at the end of the year. So it was recommended that I read them in order to cover the "appropriate" material. As this only took 2-3 hours a day for 3 months there was little reason to fight it. Afterward I found out that most students never finished these textbooks and reading 2/3 of them would have been plenty, which is just sad IMO.

Edit: I also had the teacher’s editions so it was easy to self test on most of the material. I don't think most students would have been as successful with a minimally structured environment, but the standard approach is incredibly inefficient for the top 1%. I can easily see those more capable and motivated benefitting from even less structure, also for the less capable or motivated there is still plenty of room before you hit the standard top down classroom.

PS: Apparently it is fairly common for above average homeschoolers to finish by January, and for those behind the curve to spend all year "in school".

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#87

Post by pbhjpbhj »

nickpinkston wrote: post #47
kenjackson wrote: post #27

If I was unschooled as a child, I think my every minute would have been playing basketball and Atari. It would seem to me, that children need a good deal of direction. I was curious as a child, but I don't think I was curious about math, until I learned about it. And I think this actually gets worse in high school. Where I'd probably do math/programming 24/7 and never read another non-technical book. Or study any his…

They say "not to say you abandon your child at the playground". Every kids plays the "why" game with their parents. They're naturally curious assuming they're stimulated. You can feed this curiosity and see where it takes them. If they love sports, see if they're interested in reading about the greats, or looking at stats, etc.

>Every kids plays the "why" game with their parents.

So far my eldest lad hasn't, perhaps for one day, I think it's because I kinda overload him with questions and suggestions as to why things might be, trying to stimulate him to think of possible answers.

He does come up with some humdingers though - "how do we move our arms", "what's water made of" were two of his most recent. I'm not sure that he took in all of the info on motor-neurons or realised that he should be surprised that H and O gases combine to a room temperature liquid.

Re your last sentence, I always loved sport but (despite doing Maths at Uni) have never been in the least bit interested in statistics related to it. Horses for courses, or something.

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#88

Post by pbhjpbhj »

mquander wrote: post #83
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can point at three quarters of my interests and trace them straight back to books I picked off the shelf when I was 10. But that's largely because of your particular character another child (as you were) would have benefited little from the same books and been disengaged and miserable. Instead they might benefit from a bench, tools and materials that would lead them to gain skills that could bring them later into…

I agree, I bet that many children would benefit a great deal from that. Eight hours less at school is eight hours more time to expose a kid to as many cool things as possible. That said, I think that encouraging a ton of reading of something is almost definitely going to be a good idea. Everyone with a mind should be reading.

I read vociferously as a child, reading top-junior (10-11yo) books when I was in infants (5-6yo). Mainly fiction though.

My wife was not interested in reading (apparently) at school, indeed she only really started reading for interest after we got married.

We both have science degrees.

>Everyone with a mind should be reading.

I'd find it strange, but I don't think this is absolutely necessary. I find nothing wrong with the idea a blind tetraplegic (who can't read braille or text) could be a great scientist, philosopher, ...

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#89

Post by petercooper »

geuis wrote: post #81
petercooper wrote: post #61

Because the article mentioned not memorizing the alphabet, I thought I could ask a question I've been pondering on a while. Beyond looking at print indexes and dictionaries, is there any compelling reason to learn the order of the alphabet anymore? Lists are often in alphabetical order but it's not a strict requirement to know the ordering to use those lists, and most datasets online have search. As do digital dictio…

I think teaching your kids the alphabet isn't asking for too much. And whatever you do, don't mix up the letter order. I was unlucky enough when I was a young kid (5 or 6) to be enrolled at a school for a few weeks during the start of the year while my parents were moving. (We were staying with family in a different town than the one we were moving to). The teacher started the year by helping us learn to read. I coul…

I think teaching your kids the alphabet isn't asking for too much.

I agree. I was doing a little thought experiment, though, to analyze why that is. I don't like believing something without knowing the value of believing it ;-)

And whatever you do, don't mix up the letter order.

This, though, I am unsure about.

I appreciate hearing your experiences but I'm not convinced one teacher's approach invalidates the technique. With the synthetic phonics approach that's common here in the UK, the focus is typically on learning letters in relation to their use in simple words (like 'cat'). The order of the alphabet isn't ignored, but this is left till later when the names of the letters are covered (this comes after learning all of the "sounds").

I still need to do a lot more reading into this, but my own daughter's approaching the stage where she'll be interested in specific letters and I was planning to focus on the sounds she takes an interest in and their associated representations and worry about the "alphabet" somewhat later on. Phonics is not without its detractors though so, as I say, I need to do more reading ;-)

Re: Would You Unschool Your Child?

#90

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tallanvor wrote: post #39

I would not consider "unschooling" or home-schooling for a child, nor do I think it is a good option for the majority of children. People love to malign the public school system, but the truth is that in most places in the western world children have the opportunity to get an excellent education. The problem is that more and more parents don't seem to take the time to teach their children to respect others, be it aut…

>Children who are taught by their parents that it's fine to be disruptive (at inappropriate times, at least), ignore their responsibilities, and generally think it's ok to do whatever they want make it harder for the other children to learn.

The system tends to reinforce the behaviour by not ejecting those who are disruptive to the severe detriment, IMO, of those others who are not.

Post reply on HN