Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#481

Post by mistermann » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:42 AM UTC

icanhackit wrote: post #427

mistermann wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> revealing a hidden culture exhibitionism Not only do many females seem to enjoy exhibitionism on subs like /r/gonewild, there's also a not-so-hidden culture of exhibitionism that takes place in real life that "strangely" seems to have so far escaped being raised in the ongoing gender wars discussions. Human beings are very complex beings.

> culture of exhibitionism that takes place in real life that "strangely" seems to have so far escaped being raised in the ongoing gender wars I'm not sure what discussing a lack of clothing or dressing provocatively would achieve - it's never an adequate defence for poor behaviour or assault by a third party. Any nuanced debate about the topic is difficult and likely to be a no-win scenario. One of the few reasonabl…

> I'm not sure what discussing a lack of clothing or dressing provocatively would achieve - it's never an adequate defence for poor behaviour or assault by a third party.

It might open people's eyes to some of the hypocrisy in the current public dialogue, just one of many issues being that the same action (wearing revealing clothing) is considered just fine and don't you dare even question it you victim-blamer when committed by one gender, and sexual assault when committed by another. Oh and by the way, "all we want is to be treated equally'.

> Any nuanced debate about the topic is difficult and likely to be a no-win scenario.

This is correct. It would be a step in the right direction if we could get people to extremely explicitly admit that they refuse to debate the topic.

> One of the few reasonable points to be made is that revealing clothing can be inappropriate in professional settings

I'd very much to read a statement of consensus on that as well as many other topics. I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason we don't is that all of these things that men should "just know" don't have anything approaching a consensus of opinion on the female side. But we'll keep that secret between you and me.

> This might be an overly simplistic way of looking at it, but female exhibitionism is not dissimilar from a guy flashing how much power and resources they have. It's a signalling system, and it attracts both wanted and unwanted attention, but in a civil society assault and harassment are never acceptable no matter how provocative someone's behaviour might seem.

Once again, you are correct. But good luck getting anyone to admit that female exhibitionism is ever deliberate and strategic, even though it absolutely permeates society and was an utterly uncontroversial idea The whole public discussion is a farce, and the longer we let it go on before some adults step in and tell people to clean up their acts, the more innocent people on both sides will get hurt.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#482

Post by mistermann » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:46 AM UTC

moduspol wrote: post #460

mistermann wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of material out there that isn't remotely touched upon in a traditional education. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_logic https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-classical/ https://distancelearning.ubc.ca/courses-and-programs/distanc... > If it's not being taught, then we'd need to do something differently. When reading the news, forums, or overhearing conversations, do you not regularly encoun…

> There's plenty of material out there that isn't remotely touched upon in a traditional education. Right. I took a logic class for my undergraduate degree. It's actually the source of the "modus" in my username. I guess to me that's a far cry from what people refer to as "critical thinking." Being able to identify textbook logical fallacies isn't the same thing as rationally and objectively forming a judgment about…

Do you think we've reached the absolute apex of having a well-informed citizenry?

If not, if critical thinking doesn't work, what could we do to improve this situation?

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#483

Post by 0x00000000 » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:52 AM UTC

anon6357814 wrote: post #436

_m8fo wrote: post #46

So we've tried: - Real identities (Facebook comments) - Voting and self moderation (Reddit, HN, etc.) - Strong moderation (Reddit, HN) They all result in toxic comments, trolling, an echo chamber,or worse, a complete lack of participation. There's no real solution to this problem. However, if you create consequences or a cost to commenting you'd eliminate toxic comments and trolling at the cost of less participation…

> So we've tried 4chan also exists and it works and is marvelously non-toxic once you realize that any insults hurled at you are impersonal because they can only attack what you have immediately posted previously. Your attack surface is tiny, assuming basic information hygiene.

One of my biggest issues with reddit is post history. Oops this person posted something we don't like 3 weeks ago, dismiss his post and attack him. Oops, this person posted somewhere we don't like, ban them from the 46 subreddits I moderate. Oops this person posted for the first time in a default sub they have been subscribed to for 3 years today, ban him for brigading.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#484

Post by toomanybeersies » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

floren wrote: post #339

I can't wait for the word "toxic" to drop out of favor. It implies that the person is not just giving a bad opinion, but is in fact fundamentally flawed and dangerous. Arsenic isn't toxic because it had a bad day at work, arsenic is by its nature a deadly poison and you can't change it, only avoid it. The vast majority of people labeled "toxic", though, are just humans with a variety of opinions and beliefs, some you…

On that allegory though, the poison is in the dose.

Small amounts of copper are required in your diet to keep your body functioning. However, large doses of copper are toxic.

Same goes for most drugs.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#485

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:09 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #272

KirinDave wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same sort of myth as "why are manhole covers round?" and there are lots of attributions for why that ignore history for a just-so story.

I don't understand the reference. Why are manhole covers round? I always thought it was to prevent the cover from falling into the hole. Is that not the case?

> Why are manhole covers round?

Manhole covers exist in several shapes, as illustrated on the Wikipedia page.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhole_cover

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#486

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:12 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #318

KirinDave wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the argument but actually any lipped shape can give this guarantee. Even historically manhole and utility covers had to be somewhat flush to the ground and so they've always had to be lipped for this. You can see lots of utility covers that are hinged, square, or other options, but all are lipped for safety. While a circular profile makes the lipping easier, it doesn't seem to influence many utility covers.

You can easily put a square or a rectangular utility cover into the hole, because the length of the side is less than the diagonal. This isn't possible with a circular cover because the diameter is uniform.

> You can easily put a square or a rectangular utility cover into the hole

Then why do rectangular (including square) and triangular manhole covers exist? Rectangular ones are quite common, triangular less so.

Grandparent is correct, lips are what, in practice, prevents manhole covers from falling in, not being circular (which many are not.)

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#487

Post by InclinedPlane » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:15 AM UTC

I think you replied to the wrong comment.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#488

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:15 AM UTC

derefr wrote: post #472

anigbrowl wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily put a square or a rectangular utility cover into the hole, because the length of the side is less than the diagonal. This isn't possible with a circular cover because the diameter is uniform.

The parent’s point is that a lip prevents this for every shape, by making the hole smaller than the side-length.

[deleted]

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#489

Post by austincheney » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:19 AM UTC

Bah, I recently deleted my 5 year account with nearly 4000 comment karma on Reddit.

Reddit is toxic. Saying something benign but mildly disagreeable caused some people to get emotional, and I do mean exceedingly emotional like you just crapped in their car and had sex with their girlfriend. I am not talking about politics, but subreddits like javascript and programming.

Worse than being toxic, Reddit is an echo chamber. Many users find vote counts as more than a validation but rather a righteousness or correctness, which contrarily means opposing votes are not a disagreement but a vilification.

I just found myself becoming progressively more depressed contributing to conversations there. In the end it seemed to almost never be about the conversation but about being RIGHT + 1!!!

Since deleting my account a month ago I am a much happier person.

Hacker News has voting as well, but with an incredibly important distinction. The votes are hidden from all but the respective contributors so as to eliminate votes from ever being used as any kind of vindication by ignorant people.

Re: Reddit and the Struggle to Detoxify the Internet

#490

Post by lopmotr » Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 2:29 AM UTC

aje403 wrote: post #170

wufufufu wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Since the early 20th century, raw scores on IQ tests have increased in most parts of the world. When a new version of an IQ test is normed, the standard scoring is set so performance at the population median results in a score of IQ 100. The phenomenon of rising raw score performance means if test-takers are scored by a constant standard scoring rule, IQ test scores have been rising at an average rate of around thre…

I suspected that I shouldn't have put that into my post or should have qualified it with a statement regarding how completely useless of a metric it is. My general point was that probably around half of the planet is humping a tree as we type at our computer and pontificate about the human potential and dignity, regardless of a useless score that slightly correlates with things.

IQ isn't useless. It does correlate with violence (rape and pillage?) and of course it's a powerful predictor of academic performance, future income, and even life expectancy.