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Intel Fights for Its Future

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Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#91

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

yrro wrote: post #52
hkmurakami wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even today I see an increasing number of friends moving from 2 years cycles to 3 year cycles. The "killer app" for smartphone refresh rates staying low are (1) battery degradation and (2) forced OS updates for app updates, which in turn slows the phone down to compel an update[1]. [1] I'm actually curious if OS updates slow down older phones these days. This was the case 5 years ago but perhaps things have changed/

As a grumpy Moto G 3 owner, I would love for an OS update that slowed my phone down. Short support cycles seriously dent the feasibility of keeping the same phone for even two years...

I assume aftermarket ROMs are a non-option for you?

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#92

Post by deepnotderp »

narrator wrote: post #29

Speaking of Intel failing to innovate, has anyone seen Intel's 10nm process? Canon Lake was supposed to be out in 2016 and it has now been pushed back to mid-2018. There was a super brief update about it at CES [1]. Makes one wonder if the future is not arriving on-time as previously expected. [1] https://www.anandtech.com/show/12271/intel-mentions-10nm-bri...

10nm is facing acute yield issues, rumoured to be because of the use of cobalt.

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#93

Post by Posibyte »

ttul wrote: post #85
melling wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is fine as long as ARM doesn’t compete in their core markets. Then it’s a sudden and violent change. I guess you don’t see ARM attaining parity with x86?

What makes ARM fundamentally better than Intel? The instruction set? I just don’t see it. Intel has an incomprehensibly massive installed base of compatible software. All other things being equal, why does ARM catch up?

Right now judging from Cloudflare's benchmarks, the win will be in TDP. [1] Heat is a very nasty issue to handle in large datacenters, and can end up costing quite a bit in cooling. Intel's been making some great strides in this area, but ARM chips like Qualcomm's Cintriq are pretty tempting in this space.

[1]: https://blog.cloudflare.com/arm-takes-wing/

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#94

Post by Symmetry »

jarym wrote: post #71

Intel also taking its eye off the ball as far as desktop and laptop CPUs go. CoffeeLake should be renamed CoffeeBreak given the years it’s been delayed! Perfect storm if AMD continue to pile on pressure and ARM licensees start making inroads into servers.

The big problem is that Intel's 10 nm is very late, rumor says having to do with their decision to move to using cobalt more aggressively than other other fabs. Intel's traditional advantage in their silicon process is substantially eroded which is making things much easier for their competition.

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#95

Post by inventingwithmo »

IshKebab wrote: post #38
aleem wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is definitely sensationalist but there are threats and missed opportunities on Intel's horizon and past. The lure of mobile is the upgrade cycle as those are much shorter. The same, short upgrade cycles were a boon for intel in the hey day of desktops/laptops. The bigger threat the article fails to focus on is ARM. Singularity for apps has always hinged on write-once-run-everywhere. Intel hasn't been abl…

Yeah but the upgrade cycle won't stay short for long, just like it hasn't for desktops. Give it 10 years and people will be keeping their phones until they break. Also anyone can make an ARM CPU so the margins are thin, whereas with x86 CPUs Intel will basically only ever have one competitor - AMD. They want to find another monopoly.

I wouldn't mistake the short-term lull in smartphone innovation as a long-term lull in mobile device innovation. Once they've got AR displays down to a reasonable size the power requirements will keep fuel on the fire for another two decades.

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#96

Post by pjmlp »

golergka wrote: post #83
aleem wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The headline is definitely sensationalist but there are threats and missed opportunities on Intel's horizon and past. The lure of mobile is the upgrade cycle as those are much shorter. The same, short upgrade cycles were a boon for intel in the hey day of desktops/laptops. The bigger threat the article fails to focus on is ARM. Singularity for apps has always hinged on write-once-run-everywhere. Intel hasn't been abl…

> Singularity for apps has always hinged on write-once-run-everywhere. From app developer perspective, processor architecture is low on the list of the problems you have to solve to run anywhere. User-facing apps aren't written in C or anything that close to metal anymore; I suspect that most of the Java, Kotlin and Swift code is completely architecture agnostic: add new capability to the compiler, change the build c…

Even native languages close to the metal (Ada, Pascal, Basic, ...) don't have any big issue switching processors, unless inline Assembly is used.

C and its derivatives (C++ and Objective-C) are the outliers thanks to implementation defined numeric types, the abuse in pointer tricks and casts.

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#97

Post by bogomipz »

The author states:

>"If the dispute is settled, Intel loses its wireless modems deal with Apple. No mobile CPUs + no modems = nothing of substance."

Aren't nearly all processors in mobile devices a SoC these days? Isn't the "wireless modem" just an LTE radio on the same SoC that has an 802.11 radio for wifi? I'm not understanding how these would be separate in a device like an iPhone.

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#99

Post by danmaz74 »

pjmlp wrote: post #48
IshKebab wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the upgrade cycle won't stay short for long, just like it hasn't for desktops. Give it 10 years and people will be keeping their phones until they break. Also anyone can make an ARM CPU so the margins are thin, whereas with x86 CPUs Intel will basically only ever have one competitor - AMD. They want to find another monopoly.

In Europe, where most of us use pre-pay without major subsidies, everyone uses them until they break or get stolen.

Not everyone, but many people do.

Re: Intel Fights for Its Future

#100

Post by criddell »

imtringued wrote: post #44
melling wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel is fine as long as ARM doesn’t compete in their core markets. Then it’s a sudden and violent change. I guess you don’t see ARM attaining parity with x86?

Apple is the only manufacturer that actually produces competitive processors. Qualcomm is lagging behind x86 by at least a factor 2 compared to laptop chips and by factor 6 compared to desktop chips. On top of that the arm laptops that have been announced were significantly more expensive than an equivalent x86 laptop and the x86 emulation isn't good enough to count on it.

> Qualcomm is lagging behind x86 by at least a factor 2

What metric is that? FLOPS / Watt?

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