A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture • Hacker News Board

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#11

Post by letientai299 » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 1:58 AM UTC

This article remind me of the series movies "Crows Zero"about high school students fight each other to become the leader, and also fight other school's students. They only use bare hand. Weapon do appears, but very unlikely.

There's also a scene that an the "oyabun" (absolute leader of a yakuza clan) use gun to kill one man who did not complete a mission, but instead of shooting into his head, the oyabun gave the man his coat, and shoot to the back. It turns out that the coat is bullet proof, and the oyabun actually allow that man to live a normal life thereafter.

Watching that movie make me absolutely want to fight someone with my bare hand (I know I shouldn't).

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#12

Post by notyourwork » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 1:58 AM UTC

m3kw9 wrote: post #4

JepZ wrote: post #3

So in Japan you are the cool kid when you come with a knife to a gun fight ;-) I like that attitude.

In Japan, the person with the gun would be known as bringing a gun to a knife fight.

He/she would also probably be known as undefeated.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#13

Post by DoreenMichele » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:01 AM UTC

notyourwork wrote: post #12

m3kw9 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Japan, the person with the gun would be known as bringing a gun to a knife fight.

He/she would also probably be known as undefeated.

There are no places to practice. From what I gather, even Japanese Yakuza cannot hit the broad side of a barn.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#14

Post by PhasmaFelis » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:03 AM UTC

krapp wrote: post #6

posix_compliant wrote: post #2

“Their reasons for remaining gun-free revolved around some loosely held concept of honor,” Beck says. “Being able to move your finger on a trigger is not really a skill that wows anyone.” I find this mindset is reflected in a lot of manga produced in Japan. Heroes are often paired with swords: Rurouni Kenshin, Inu Yasha, and Bleach to name a few.

And yet (as I hear) the Samurai they emulate considered their bows to be their primary weapon, and their spears their secondary weapon, and considered it a disgrace to ever need to draw their sword. They also used guns when they became available. They were soldiers and mercenaries, after all.

Of course manga heroes are more about romantic ideals than historical accuracy, but even so, you can't really generalize about all samurai any more than you can generalize about all European knights. The samurai class existed in one form or another for around a millennium. I rather doubt that they all considered it a "disgrace" to draw their sword.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#15

Post by seabird » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:05 AM UTC

dahdum wrote: post #5

This conclusion is based on remembered anecdote from 35 years ago...bit shaky to make firm statements based on that. Edit: Unless I'm missing something basic here? I don't see any reference or link to the "study on juvenile crime" the article title references.

It is indeed anecdotal, but gang violence is hugely influenced by the culture of the nation it's taking place in. Brash, unabashed outlaws have been romanticized in American culture since its very beginning, and firearms have always been a part of the American gunslinger mythos. Other nations facing organized crime with access to firearms don't necessarily have the same issues.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#16

Post by brownbat » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:06 AM UTC

posix_compliant wrote: post #2

“Their reasons for remaining gun-free revolved around some loosely held concept of honor,” Beck says. “Being able to move your finger on a trigger is not really a skill that wows anyone.” I find this mindset is reflected in a lot of manga produced in Japan. Heroes are often paired with swords: Rurouni Kenshin, Inu Yasha, and Bleach to name a few.

It's not wholly unique to Japan. In retellings of the Trojan War, Ajax's bow is used to make him look less honorable than the swordsmen he kills.

It's basically technophobia. Usually a dangerous bias, but if we can harness it to prevent people from shooting each other, maybe that's the upside.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#17

Post by Cyph0n » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:15 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #13

notyourwork wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He/she would also probably be known as undefeated.

There are no places to practice. From what I gather, even Japanese Yakuza cannot hit the broad side of a barn.

Japan is small, but I'm sure there are still plenty of uninhabited natural areas. Just setup a few cans and fire away.

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#18

Post by DoreenMichele » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #17

DoreenMichele wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no places to practice. From what I gather, even Japanese Yakuza cannot hit the broad side of a barn.

Japan is small, but I'm sure there are still plenty of uninhabited natural areas. Just setup a few cans and fire away.

If they wanted to make it realistic, he'd pull out a gun and shoot it and miss! Or the damn thing wouldn't fire. That would be realistic. (They all laugh).

https://boingboing.net/2010/08/10/yakuza-3-review.html

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#19

Post by ethbro » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:19 AM UTC

brownbat wrote: post #16

posix_compliant wrote: post #2

“Their reasons for remaining gun-free revolved around some loosely held concept of honor,” Beck says. “Being able to move your finger on a trigger is not really a skill that wows anyone.” I find this mindset is reflected in a lot of manga produced in Japan. Heroes are often paired with swords: Rurouni Kenshin, Inu Yasha, and Bleach to name a few.

It's not wholly unique to Japan. In retellings of the Trojan War, Ajax's bow is used to make him look less honorable than the swordsmen he kills. It's basically technophobia. Usually a dangerous bias, but if we can harness it to prevent people from shooting each other, maybe that's the upside.

I'd say the dishonorable bow is less technophobia and more class-phobia.

The idea that a peasant could murder an armored nobleman with a lucky shot? Inconceivable!

Re: A 1980s study on juvenile crime in Japan sheds light on American gun culture

#20

Post by miketery » Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 2:23 AM UTC

letientai299 wrote: post #11

This article remind me of the series movies "Crows Zero"about high school students fight each other to become the leader, and also fight other school's students. They only use bare hand. Weapon do appears, but very unlikely. There's also a scene that an the "oyabun" (absolute leader of a yakuza clan) use gun to kill one man who did not complete a mission, but instead of shooting into his head, the oyabun gave the man…

I highly recommend trying out BJJ (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu). Not only is it physically and mentally stimulating (I like to refer to it as physical chess), it also makes you appreciate how vulnerable you are, and by extension why to avoid physical altercation at nearly all costs. An added bonus is that you'll be able to defend your self against most people.