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Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

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Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#41

Post by dahart »

Animats wrote: post #35
dahart wrote: post #6

> 4. Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. This one reminds me of writing advice from South Park's Trey Parker: write better stories by figuring out how to replace all your "ands" and "buts" with "therefore". http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2015/05/the-k... > 20. Exercise: take the building blocks of a movie you disli…

Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. That leads to a cliche - the nobody who becomes a hero. That's so Pixar. Biography movies of real people aren't like that, because real life usually isn't.

Just curious, what in the story spine sentence with blanks is suggesting heroes, or people at all?

> Biography movies of real people aren’t like that

There was a great comment the other day about the interview story structure, and how to make a story about average people into an interesting narrative:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16540080

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#42

Post by denzil_correa »

kleiba wrote: post #37
mrspeaker wrote: post #14

"Discount the 1st thing that comes to mind. And the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th – get the obvious out of the way." I make this my personal rule when replying to something on the internet: if it's the first thing you thought of, there are already 20 other replies saying exactly the same thing!

You gotta be careful though: often times, first intuitions aren't so bad, and further iterations can get more and more complicated until there's no freshness left at all.

I think the point is to build on the first intuition rather than consider it "well done". It is to actively accept that may be you are missing something that can help convert the first intuition into an even better idea. Therefore, I wouldn't say you need to discard the first idea/intuition but rather to not think of it as the final product.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#43

Post by apo »

aequitas wrote: post #32
dahart wrote: post #6

> 4. Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. This one reminds me of writing advice from South Park's Trey Parker: write better stories by figuring out how to replace all your "ands" and "buts" with "therefore". http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2015/05/the-k... > 20. Exercise: take the building blocks of a movie you disli…

A good example of the rearranging is from Nerdwriters YouTube https://youtu.be/Gksxu-yeWcU Just a minor change in order of the same scenes completely changed a movie.

That was one of the best film critiques I've ever seen. I especially like the fact that:

- the original movie was explained because I had never heard of it; and

- a short version of the re-edited movie was spliced together so that you could see what the author had in mind.

Overall, this is a compelling demonstration of how simply changing the order in which the viewer gets information can make a so-so story great.

Also, it makes me want to see both Passengers (even though it's supposed to be predictable) and Solaris (because it's not supposed to be).

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#44

Post by runevault »

denzil_correa wrote: post #42
kleiba wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You gotta be careful though: often times, first intuitions aren't so bad, and further iterations can get more and more complicated until there's no freshness left at all.

I think the point is to build on the first intuition rather than consider it "well done". It is to actively accept that may be you are missing something that can help convert the first intuition into an even better idea. Therefore, I wouldn't say you need to discard the first idea/intuition but rather to not think of it as the final product.

Not necessarily. For example: I need a chase scene in my story here.

If you're telling a modern story, your first inclination is either a car chase or a foot chase. You certainly CAN just spice these up (put them in a surprising location being the easiest) but there is value in trying to find a different way (chase on Segways, or maybe on animals stolen from the zoo, etc).

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#45

Post by runevault »

woodandsteel wrote: post #30

It's interesting the focus on the beginning and the end. It seems that would mean you should think a lot about how things at the end are similar or different from the start, like circumstances and character, and how you feel about all that.

Yup, if you know the beginning and the end, theoretically there are only so many ways to get there. The trick is picking the most interesting route that also creates the emotional journey you want the audience to go through.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#46

Post by stordoff »

runevault wrote: post #44
denzil_correa wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is to build on the first intuition rather than consider it "well done". It is to actively accept that may be you are missing something that can help convert the first intuition into an even better idea. Therefore, I wouldn't say you need to discard the first idea/intuition but rather to not think of it as the final product.

Not necessarily. For example: I need a chase scene in my story here. If you're telling a modern story, your first inclination is either a car chase or a foot chase. You certainly CAN just spice these up (put them in a surprising location being the easiest) but there is value in trying to find a different way (chase on Segways, or maybe on animals stolen from the zoo, etc).

IMO you need to be careful about going too far the other way though - if you start going with the non-conventional choice too often, or where there isn't justification for doing so, it can start to feel forced/different just for the sake of being different.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#47

Post by runevault »

stordoff wrote: post #46
runevault wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. For example: I need a chase scene in my story here. If you're telling a modern story, your first inclination is either a car chase or a foot chase. You certainly CAN just spice these up (put them in a surprising location being the easiest) but there is value in trying to find a different way (chase on Segways, or maybe on animals stolen from the zoo, etc).

IMO you need to be careful about going too far the other way though - if you start going with the non-conventional choice too often, or where there isn't justification for doing so, it can start to feel forced/different just for the sake of being different.

You can't go so over the top that it doesn't fit your story. Like a space shuttle chase scene in a low key romance is not going to play unless you've done a LOT of work to pay it off. Everything needs internal consistency, but you still need to add layers to keep it from being dull. So long as the core trope is there (chase scene with the reversals etc) your audience will be able to follow what is going on and be in for the ride. The hard part is not being stupid about it.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#48

Post by [deleted] »

arethuza wrote: post #28
dahart wrote: post #6

> 4. Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. This one reminds me of writing advice from South Park's Trey Parker: write better stories by figuring out how to replace all your "ands" and "buts" with "therefore". http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2015/05/the-k... > 20. Exercise: take the building blocks of a movie you disli…

"How d’you rearrange them into what you DO like?" Are you allowed to combine multiple movies? If so them I'm off to combine "Howards End" and "The Hurt Locker" into something more to my taste....

[deleted]

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#49

Post by jimmaswell »

macintux wrote: post #29
kibwen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who really likes #19, you may be reading subtext that isn't there. Coincidences, in small doses, are the foundation of stories. Every story gets one extraordinary coincidence, because extraordinary coincidences happen all the time (just not usually multiple times to the same actors within a short span of time, which is where Deus ex Machina starts being levied). Star Wars is premised upon the coin…

The number of coincidences in the first 40 minutes of The Force Awakens is staggering.

In Star Wars, that kind of thing is often considered to happen due to the will of the Force, like finding Anakin on Tatooine. Some would call it lazy writing, but I don't mind in Star Wars' case.

Re: Pixar's Rules of Storytelling (2013)

#50

Post by 8note »

Animats wrote: post #35
dahart wrote: post #6

> 4. Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. This one reminds me of writing advice from South Park's Trey Parker: write better stories by figuring out how to replace all your "ands" and "buts" with "therefore". http://www.presentationzen.com/presentationzen/2015/05/the-k... > 20. Exercise: take the building blocks of a movie you disli…

Once upon a time there was ___. Every day, ___. One day ___. Because of that, ___. Because of that, ___. Until finally ___. That leads to a cliche - the nobody who becomes a hero. That's so Pixar. Biography movies of real people aren't like that, because real life usually isn't.

it seems to me like anither short hand for describing a three act structure:

first act: once upon a time there was ____. Every day,____.

inciting incident: One day ___.

second act: Because of that, ___. Because of that, ____. third act: Until finally ____.

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