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Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

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31–40 of 113 posts

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#31
post #3

I think a lot of studies like this are just wrong. When I was a kid, I couldn't sleep without a light on because I'd get depressed. So later on in life if I didn't remember that, I'd think that I just had a light on and now I'm depressed. I think depressed people like a little light. Much like they say red meat causes cancer, I don't think it's the red meat. I think it's how it's cooked. Red meat is usually barbecued…

>So later on in life if I didn't remember that, I'd think that I just had a light on and now I'm depressed.

What? Anyway, this study has strict definitions of what "depression" is, and I doubt whatever you felt as a child would qualify.

>Much like they say red meat causes cancer, I don't think it's the red meat. I think it's how it's cooked. Red meat is usually barbecued and that char is what could be causing the cancer.

They say eating red meat may cause cancer. Even if your guess is true, they would still be right as red meat is often barbecued. And as a larger point, thinking something like this is true doesn't matter until you get evidence for it.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#32

So does my body itself need to be protected from seeing light or just my face/eyes? I'll just get a sleep mask.

Skimming the original study, it talks about subjects opening and closing their eyes, so I would very much assume that it's entirely related to seeing light (and not about absorbing light through the face or body). If you get a sleep mask, be sure to look for one designed to not put pressure on your eyes, which are not hard to find if you seek it out. The cheap ones you get at pharmacies and dollar stores put direct p…

Uhhh, are you sure about that? My ten dollar sleep mask from walgreen doesn't touch my eyes, I don't think it even touches my lashes. Meanwhile every mask I've tried buying online has fit terribly.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#34
post #8

It seems like a study like this could have actually modified the light levels and measured the changes.

Actually, they didn't touch the lights at all, they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to. They write that "an interventional method, such as a randomized controlled trial using a LAN exposure, is not possible because of ethical concerns".

> They write that "an interventional method, such as a randomized controlled trial using a LAN exposure, is not possible because of ethical concerns".

They're wrong about that. The intervention group could be advising people to avoid light, and having someone come to their house and install better shades and put tape on LEDs.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#35

Should we assume that the light itself is causing the depression? Or should we assume that the light leads to poor sleep, and then the poor sleep is what triggers the depression?

The second one I think is the most likely assumption, but the most reasonable/obvious can be wrong which is why studies are important.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#36

Should we assume that the light itself is causing the depression? Or should we assume that the light leads to poor sleep, and then the poor sleep is what triggers the depression?

And how does poor sleep causing depression square with sleep deprivation alleviating it?

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#37
post #8

It seems like a study like this could have actually modified the light levels and measured the changes.

Actually, they didn't touch the lights at all, they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to. They write that "an interventional method, such as a randomized controlled trial using a LAN exposure, is not possible because of ethical concerns".

It seems like giving half the people blackout curtains and then monitoring depression levels would be perfectly ethical, since it's expected to improve their life, if anything.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skimming the original study, it talks about subjects opening and closing their eyes, so I would very much assume that it's entirely related to seeing light (and not about absorbing light through the face or body). If you get a sleep mask, be sure to look for one designed to not put pressure on your eyes, which are not hard to find if you seek it out. The cheap ones you get at pharmacies and dollar stores put direct p…

Uhhh, are you sure about that? My ten dollar sleep mask from walgreen doesn't touch my eyes, I don't think it even touches my lashes. Meanwhile every mask I've tried buying online has fit terribly.

I think he's talking about literal dollar priced masks or giveaway sleep masks which are usually just a tiny piece of fabric around something more solid, which attaches to you by means of an elastic band; the band however resists falling/slipping by pushing on your eyeballs.

It sounds like your mask is a bit better, and probably more expensive that the parent means. I've gotten such cheap masks as giveaways and the few I tried were indeed unbearable for sleeping as it felt like someone was crushing my face.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#40
Sort of OT, but this reminds me of a question I've not been able to find an answer for on blue light and sleep. (OT because the article says nothing about blue light).

One way light affects sleep is via the intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells (ipRGCs). These are a third kind of photoreceptor in our retinas, distinct from the more well known rods and cones. These are most sensitive to blue light. They signal the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) in the brain with information about the amount of light they are receiving. The SCN controls circadian rhythms, and uses the changes in light as the day ends as reported by the ipRGCs to do things like to keep things that should be synchronized to the day/night cycle in sync.

Blue light in the evening can mess this up because it makes it look like it is still daylight, as far as far as the SCN can can tell from what it gets from the ipRGCs.

What I have not found anywhere is whether this is based on absolute or relative amount of blue light. Does the SCN look for blue light to fall below a certain fixed threshold, or does it do something like note the peak level of blue light during the day, and then look for the blue light to fall below a certain fraction of that?

The reason this matters is that more and more of our devices that we want to use in the evening supply blue light. We try to counter that by adding features that change the color spectrum in the evening to something with less blue. But that doesn't always work. Computers usually can do it, and often so can tablets and phones. I don't think many TVs have such a setting, though.

If the SCN works with absolute levels, fixing the devices (or wearing blue light filtering glasses) might be the only answer if you aren't able to stop using your devices in the evening.

But if it is based on relative levels, keyed off the peak daytime level...then instead of fixing all the devices it might be possible to address the problem by greatly boosting blue levels in the middle of the day, so that your evening device levels will be far enough down from the peak to not affect anything.

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