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Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

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Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#21

Post by dpark »

noname120 wrote: post #20
icebraining wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they didn't touch the lights at all, they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to. They write that "an interventional method, such as a randomized controlled trial using a LAN exposure, is not possible because of ethical concerns".

> Actually, they didn't touch the lights at all, they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to. But isn't it a flaw of the study? It only shows correlation without causality. What if being exposed to light is correlated to some other factor that is responsible for increased depression? In this case, decreasing the amount of light won't decrease depression.

It’s a limitation, not a flaw. Ethical concerns limit a lot of studies. It’s not generally considered ethical to induce depression in human subjects.

But yes, it’s possible that some other factor is responsible, such as living next to a busy road with lots of street lights.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#22

Post by noname120 »

icebraining wrote: post #5

Link to the study: https://sci-hub.tw/https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/187/...

This is worth noting:

> Our study has several potential limitations. First, participants were not randomly selected, possibly leading to selection bias. However, the parameters of BMI and estimated glomerular filtration rate were similar to corresponding national data in Japan and the follow-up rate was sufficiently high.

> Second, bedroom light intensity was measured without eye-level light meters, and sleep/awake status was measured only over 2 days.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#23

Post by musage »

GoToRO wrote: post #7

What I don't like are the "solutions" they propose: noise? use earplugs, light? use curtains. Well I will not be able to sleep if I have something in my ears and if you pull the curtains then you can no longer wake up naturally with the Sun. How about changing your lifestyle so that you can have silence and dark during the night and light in the morning without any "devices". You might have to quit your job :)

Some people have to work at night so you don't have to.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#24

Post by cgravill »

muzani wrote: post #17
computator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skimming the original study, it talks about subjects opening and closing their eyes, so I would very much assume that it's entirely related to seeing light (and not about absorbing light through the face or body). If you get a sleep mask, be sure to look for one designed to not put pressure on your eyes, which are not hard to find if you seek it out. The cheap ones you get at pharmacies and dollar stores put direct p…

Any brands you'd suggest?

Hibermate are very good, I use them especially when travelling. Original style are reasonably priced https://www.hibermate.com/products/the-original-hibermate

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#25

Post by dpark »

mrfusion wrote: post #19
icebraining wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they didn't touch the lights at all, they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to. They write that "an interventional method, such as a randomized controlled trial using a LAN exposure, is not possible because of ethical concerns".

I can’t imagine minor adjustments to light levels could ever be considered unethical. Is it unethical when a city installs a new street light?

It’s unethical to do X when X is expected to harm the study subjects. Exceptions are sometimes made for interventions with terminally ill patients, but in general studies that are expected to harm subjects are not approved by ethics boards.

They could reasonably do an intervention study that only reduces bedroom light to confirm if that corrects depression on subjects.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#27

Post by noname120 »

dpark wrote: post #21
noname120 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Actually, they didn't touch the lights at all, they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to. But isn't it a flaw of the study? It only shows correlation without causality. What if being exposed to light is correlated to some other factor that is responsible for increased depression? In this case, decreasing the amount of light won't decrease depression.

It’s a limitation, not a flaw. Ethical concerns limit a lot of studies. It’s not generally considered ethical to induce depression in human subjects. But yes, it’s possible that some other factor is responsible, such as living next to a busy road with lots of street lights.

Sorry for the confusion, I forgot to specify that I was giving an answer to the following:

> they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#28

Post by e40 »

mrfusion wrote: post #19
icebraining wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, they didn't touch the lights at all, they only measured the lights that people already were exposed to. They write that "an interventional method, such as a randomized controlled trial using a LAN exposure, is not possible because of ethical concerns".

I can’t imagine minor adjustments to light levels could ever be considered unethical. Is it unethical when a city installs a new street light?

Other studies have shown increased risk of cancer for nurses that sleep during the day, so there is a legit concern.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#29

Post by Broken_Hippo »

GoToRO wrote: post #7

What I don't like are the "solutions" they propose: noise? use earplugs, light? use curtains. Well I will not be able to sleep if I have something in my ears and if you pull the curtains then you can no longer wake up naturally with the Sun. How about changing your lifestyle so that you can have silence and dark during the night and light in the morning without any "devices". You might have to quit your job :)

"Wake up naturally with the sun"

1. I've never done this. Not as a child, not as a teen, and not as an adult. I'm nearly 40. I can get myself to wake between 9 and 10 with an alarm, 11 or noon without.

2. I live too far north for this to be reasonable. December days are around 4.5 hours long. Summer nights don't actually get dark here. The sun goes down and stays just below the horizon, so there is a few hours of twilight. You can read outside if the sky is clear.

Re: Sleeping in rooms with even a little light can increase risk of depression

#30

Post by reificator »

computator wrote: post #16
navjack27 wrote: post #14

So does my body itself need to be protected from seeing light or just my face/eyes? I'll just get a sleep mask.

Skimming the original study, it talks about subjects opening and closing their eyes, so I would very much assume that it's entirely related to seeing light (and not about absorbing light through the face or body). If you get a sleep mask, be sure to look for one designed to not put pressure on your eyes, which are not hard to find if you seek it out. The cheap ones you get at pharmacies and dollar stores put direct p…

I just discovered sleep masks, and they've changed my life.

I bought some on Amazon and got a few different kinds (from the same listing, which is frustrating). All of them have a dome that bulges out over each eye. The most comfortable one I have looks like an eye bra, but unfortunately I can't find a place to order more.

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