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The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

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Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#71

Post by passiveincomelg »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #57
Falling3 wrote: post #2

I've worked with chickens for years. Among lay people, being able to correctly sex a chicken after 2-3 weeks is a difficult skill. It's incredibly interesting that these people are able to do it so easily at such an early age. It's also put to very disturbing uses. The females go on to be used as layer hens and the males are kill within hours of hatching - generally in gruesome/painful ways.

It depends on the jurisdiction, but the chicks are usually dispatched in a way that minimizes suffering, even if it looks gruesome. The flipside to their early death is the fate of the hens, which may have to live in small cages for a couple of month before being slaughtered themselves.

Can you really watch a video of adorable little chicks being shredded and think "yeah, this is fine"?

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#72

Post by DonaldFisk »

gambiting wrote: post #67
DonaldFisk wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you tell? It sounds pretty painful. There is a painless way of killing, through asphyxiation by inert gas (e.g. nitrogen, but not carbon dioxide).

I don't know what part of dying instantly would be painful - that's sort of the point of the "instantly" part. If you watch a video of this process on YouTube it's incredibly quick.

Fast pain receptors send signals to the brain at a speed of between 5 and 30 metres per second (via A-delta fibres). So if the pain travels a distance of 1cm, it wil reach the brain in between 0.3 and 2 milliseconds. If the killing process lasts any longer than this, it probably generates excruciating pain, albeit briefly.

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#73

Post by mieseratte »

passiveincomelg wrote: post #71
bayesian_horse wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the jurisdiction, but the chicks are usually dispatched in a way that minimizes suffering, even if it looks gruesome. The flipside to their early death is the fate of the hens, which may have to live in small cages for a couple of month before being slaughtered themselves.

Can you really watch a video of adorable little chicks being shredded and think "yeah, this is fine"?

Life is full of the most horrible pain and suffering you can't imagine. We can't stop and shed a tear every time someone meets their fate, let alone every time some poor creature does.

So, yes, I can absolutely watch those videos without a shred of emotion. It's called compartmentalization.

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#74

Post by wnkrshm »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #47
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Googling suggests that animal welfare organisations currently suggest maceration is the best alternative, being better than carbon dioxide which gets second place. Do you happen to know why they don't promote your suggestion of suffucation with nitrogen?

Yeah given the extremely robust panic response induced by co2-- to the point where co2 is used as an animal model of panic-- almost any other gas is better.

Exactly, that feeling of asphyxiation you get when you hold your breath is not because of low oxygen levels - your body doesn't know about those - but high CO2 concentration.

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#75

Post by passiveincomelg »

mieseratte wrote: post #73
passiveincomelg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really watch a video of adorable little chicks being shredded and think "yeah, this is fine"?

Life is full of the most horrible pain and suffering you can't imagine. We can't stop and shed a tear every time someone meets their fate, let alone every time some poor creature does. So, yes, I can absolutely watch those videos without a shred of emotion. It's called compartmentalization.

That's certainly true and I do this with suffering I feel unable to do anything about. But in the case of factory farming, I decided that it is insane and I don't want anything to do with it.

However, it's not just that I feel bad about animals being killed or tortured. Factory farming is also simply disgusting and I don't want to eat the food it produces.

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#76

Post by lurquer »

passiveincomelg wrote: post #71
bayesian_horse wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the jurisdiction, but the chicks are usually dispatched in a way that minimizes suffering, even if it looks gruesome. The flipside to their early death is the fate of the hens, which may have to live in small cages for a couple of month before being slaughtered themselves.

Can you really watch a video of adorable little chicks being shredded and think "yeah, this is fine"?

'Adorable' and 'little' have nothing to do with the ethics of it all. In any case, it's amusing to read urbanites' views on chickens. I'd encourage them to spend some time around chickens. We have the insults 'chicken-brained' or 'chicken-head' for a reason... domesticated chickens are perhaps the stupidest creatures you'll meet. The biggest question one ponders while watching chickens is NOT 'are they happy?' Rather, it's 'are these things even conscious?'

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#77

Post by viggity »

petermcneeley wrote: post #37

Is sperm sex selection not possible? (it is in humans) Is this detectable via ultrasound of egg? Why not breed chickens with visible sex difference?

elsewhere in the discussion it said that chickens have a ZW chromosome system. females are ZW, males are ZZ. so I guess the answer to your question is "no".

as far as breeding something more noticeable is probably possible, the problem is when you find that trait and breed it into the variety, do you bring down the productivity of the variety. Is a 2% reduction in productivity of the chicken (over the course of its life) pay for the 3-4 seconds it takes for a chicken sexer to make a decision? Even if the sexer makes $60k/year and it takes them 4 seconds to make a decision, it only costs 3 cents to make a decision. There are a whole bunch of other considerations (life of avg layer, input costs per egg, etc). I don't know the answer, but is all that worth the risk that the productivity takes a 5% or 10% hit instead of 2%.

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#78

Post by passiveincomelg »

lurquer wrote: post #76
passiveincomelg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you really watch a video of adorable little chicks being shredded and think "yeah, this is fine"?

'Adorable' and 'little' have nothing to do with the ethics of it all. In any case, it's amusing to read urbanites' views on chickens. I'd encourage them to spend some time around chickens. We have the insults 'chicken-brained' or 'chicken-head' for a reason... domesticated chickens are perhaps the stupidest creatures you'll meet. The biggest question one ponders while watching chickens is NOT 'are they happy?' Rather…

Sure, it's got nothing to do with ethics. I'm just curious how people feel about this. I'm definitely not ok with it, so I want to avoid supporting these practices.

I also don't think the fact that chickens are dumb makes it less insane and cruel to produce, torture and kill them on a massive scale.

If it were, how about pigs? They get a really shitty deal during production in animal farm as well. They are supposedly quite smart, definitely concious and able to feel pain and suffering.

The happiest moment of their lives is probably when (if) they realize they are about to be killed.

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#79

Post by lurquer »

passiveincomelg wrote: post #78
lurquer wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Adorable' and 'little' have nothing to do with the ethics of it all. In any case, it's amusing to read urbanites' views on chickens. I'd encourage them to spend some time around chickens. We have the insults 'chicken-brained' or 'chicken-head' for a reason... domesticated chickens are perhaps the stupidest creatures you'll meet. The biggest question one ponders while watching chickens is NOT 'are they happy?' Rather…

Sure, it's got nothing to do with ethics. I'm just curious how people feel about this. I'm definitely not ok with it, so I want to avoid supporting these practices. I also don't think the fact that chickens are dumb makes it less insane and cruel to produce, torture and kill them on a massive scale. If it were, how about pigs? They get a really shitty deal during production in animal farm as well. They are supposedly…

Sympathy towards animals is admirable. But, there is a certain naïveté that surrounds this issue with those unfamiliar with livestock.

You mention pigs. We raised pigs. Not cages... just typical barnyard animals with acres to wander around. When a sow gave birth, it was routine for her to step on or roll over onto a few piglets and kill them. And, of course the runt(s) would die within days; we'd hold them by the rear legs and slam them into the side of the barn. Killed fast. Never considered using nitrogen to suffocate then. Never worried much about how many milliseconds it took for pain to travel to their brain in the moment before they were knocked out. Seems sort of silly.

And don't get me started on chickens. Domesticated chickens are hideous... roosters more so. Try raising a group of roosters and chickens and see what happens. They aren't the most civilized creatures. In any case, I keep ssying 'domesticated' chickens... I'm sure Whatever wild poultry these thing came from are probably normal. But, damn... I'm telling you... We have bred the IQ out of chickens... they are the closest thing to automatons you will find in a barnyard. I have more sympathy and respect for cockroaches than chickens.

Re: The Lucrative Art of Chicken Sexing (2017)

#80

Post by gowld »

cyberferret wrote: post #48
Falling3 wrote: post #2

I've worked with chickens for years. Among lay people, being able to correctly sex a chicken after 2-3 weeks is a difficult skill. It's incredibly interesting that these people are able to do it so easily at such an early age. It's also put to very disturbing uses. The females go on to be used as layer hens and the males are kill within hours of hatching - generally in gruesome/painful ways.

I watched a video once of one of these workers picking chicks out of a conveyor belt - the female ones were dropped back onto the belt, but the male ones were wrist flicked into an eviscerating machine. Pretty much turned me off the whole poultry industry at that point. I can't imagine the sort of callous nature one has to foment within themselves to so dismissively handle a living creature then toss it into a machin…

Is the hypocrisy of outsourcing your killing somehow better than callously doing the killing yourself?
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