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Can any composer equal Bach?

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Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#71
post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

> The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad.

Why is that sad? People have different musical preferences. You appear to be implying they are all wrong for liking other genres of music. Perhaps it is you who is being close minded in this particular instance?

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#72
post #65
post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

I listen to many things. I would liken popular music to your 30 minute sitcom. Whereas a concerto or a symphony i would liken to the entire Star Wars movie series or similar. It can take a composer 10 minutes to set up a “scene” and pop songs are lucky to be 4 minutes long and sometimes as short as 2.

Pop music short, classical music long. Got it.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#73

A careful analysis of Beethoven's later works shows him to be a worthy contender. In particular, the Große Fugue [0] and the Op. 106 Hammerklavier sonata [1] (ironically so nicknamed, because at Op. 101, Beethoven directed that all sonatas from that time on be named Große Sonate für das Hammerklavier, and the nickname only stuck to this) show a profoundly advanced sense of counterpoint and structure. In addition to a…

How do you feel about Rachmaninoff?

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#74
post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

I'm curious, are you hating on Beethoven and Mozart or did you just not read the comments that you presume to summarize?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556892

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556192

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556033

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#75
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those pieces you mention aren't exactly the things I would categorize as "moving", though. What about the pieces for solo cello (BWV 1007-1008)? The Goldberg Variations? The solo violin sonatas (BWV 1001-1006)? His motets (e.g. BWV 227) and cantatas (too many to mention)? Or the Matthäus Passion (BWV 244)? Most people would also mention the Orchestral Suite No. 3 in D major (BWV 1068, more famously known as "Air on t…

I still remember where I was when I first time I saw the piano partitas (BWV 825-830) performed. Gould playing the one in C minor moves me about as much as any music, along with some of the others you mentioned. Bach's compositions are unquestionably beautiful and technically brilliant, but not all of his music was written to stir an audience. He composed in a different time and for different reasons than the classic…

“The purpose of art is not the release of a momentary ejection of adrenaline but rather the gradual, lifelong construction of a state of wonder and serenity.”

― Glenn Gould

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#76
post #50

> It’s inconceivable that another composer could take Bach’s place in that slot. Even Mozart or Beethoven wouldn’t cut it. I'd pick Mozart. When listeners hear Bach enumerate what seems like every significant variation technique for a given theme, they can quickly attribute mastery upon hearing that one piece. But someone with Bach's abilities could just as easily have only imagined all those variations as potential…

> It’s inconceivable that another composer could take Bach’s place... I'd like to put my vote in for Lennon-McCartney. I know we're talking about classical music here and I'm not trolling. I just think they're the toppermost of the poppermost.

There's definitely a lot of innovation with them, and not just in songwriting. For example, I can't figure why Helter Skelter has somehow managed to sound like it was recorded yesterday for five decades now. How many other recordings from 1968 sound like that?

But I can imagine a world where an alternate Lennon-McCartney arranged all their own string parts, dominated the symphonic world, wrote wildly popular church service music, performed guitar showcase music with prominent (probably improvised) cadenzas, and had multiple hits running on Broadway.

I think you could pick any single genre, burn everything else Mozart wrote, and he'd still be regarded as one of the greatest composers of his time. (That doesn't work for Beethoven because of the opera genre.)

Rich people at parties are still playing the throw-away background music he probably wrote for a rich person's party. (Btw-- if you listen to the rest of his background music you won't be disappointed.)

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#77
post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

>Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only. Why would anyone do any of these things? Besides the nebulous benefits of realizing how wrong we were for enjoying rap?

Why would anyone read a serious novel, like Crime and Punishment, instead of a comic book? Mozart's Jupiter Symphony will still be performed and appreciated fifty years from now. Can the same be said for your cherished rap/pop songs?

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#78
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, are you hating on Beethoven and Mozart or did you just not read the comments that you presume to summarize?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556192 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556033

Most?

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#79
post #61

HN types think they're the smartest of the smart, yet judging from these comments and from other music-related posts I've seen here, most of you listen to popular music (including rock and rap) near exclusively. The comments seriously offering up pop stars as equals of Bach are just sad. Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only.…

>Go on a pop diet. Cut back on it the way you might sugar or processed foods. Try to spend a year listening to classical music only. Why would anyone do any of these things? Besides the nebulous benefits of realizing how wrong we were for enjoying rap?

I wouldn’t put it that way to someone. If you do like rap, though, or more generally pop music you owe it to rap and pop music to listen to their roots - jazz, blues (the old stuff - Howlin Wolf, Elmore James, etc), and R & B. I did this with my absolute favorite band (at that time), Led Zeppelin. I sought after and listened to all the versions of their songs from the songs roots. Many bands’ iconic songs started out in the fields with sharecroppers. All of those songs other “covers” shine a different light on them. I discovered more music that made me feel similarly to how Led Zeppelin did - after exhausting all of LZ’s music.

In terms of classical music, there are pop songs that include or took entire parts of classical songs in a new angle. To listen to classical music is to more fully explore the music you already love.

Further, imagine if you went through life never having watched any movies or plays nor read any books. It’s possible to do so, but you would definitely censor yourself out of a valuable part of the human experience.

Just some other stuff

guitar solos in all songs -> a tiny excerpt of Flamenco guitar.

The sort of song where there’s an introductory period of instrumental music before the vocals -> started with Elmore James’ “The Sky is crying”

The first movement of Beethoven’s 7th is prelude to one of the most beautiful pieces of art, the second movement of Beethoven’s 7th.

A person had a mental breakdown playing Rachmaninov’s second piano concerto. His music can be as intense as a thunderstorm.

Bach. I can often tell I’m listening to Bach because there was Bach and then all the other people to touch an instrument let alone compose. Sometimes I can’t connect to his music, other times I feel as though my brain was rewired to the deep reality of the universe.

Re: Can any composer equal Bach?

#80
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556192 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16556033

Most?

Yes, most. Most HNers have zero appreciation for serious music. This post announcing the death of David Bowie got 1484 upvotes and 301 comments (and the brave few who criticized it as off-topic got flagged): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10879262

By contrast, the death of Boulez, love him or hate him, got two upvotes and zero comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10850214

And the deaths of Claudio Abbado and Alexis Weissenberg, as additional examples, were ignored completely.

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