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Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

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Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#21

Post by davidw »

bouncingsoul wrote: post #7

What really bothers me about YC-clones copying the application form is how little it shows the group has thought about the program they're starting. How is it possible that PG nailed down exactly what every seed investor would ever want to know about startup founders seeking funding? Don't these investors have any other questions? Do they actually call people hackers in real life? Is a couple sentences about each fou…

You think an application form indicates thought about the program? They're just going to copy a few forms and start throwing thousands of dollars at people... Right...

If this were a statically typed conversation, it would have been impossible to make a mountain from this molehill.

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#22

Post by bouncingsoul »

davidw wrote: post #21
bouncingsoul wrote: post #7

What really bothers me about YC-clones copying the application form is how little it shows the group has thought about the program they're starting. How is it possible that PG nailed down exactly what every seed investor would ever want to know about startup founders seeking funding? Don't these investors have any other questions? Do they actually call people hackers in real life? Is a couple sentences about each fou…

You think an application form indicates thought about the program? They're just going to copy a few forms and start throwing thousands of dollars at people... Right... If this were a statically typed conversation, it would have been impossible to make a mountain from this molehill.

I don't understand your comment. Could you clarify?

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#23

Post by llimllib »

axod wrote: post #13
kirubakaran wrote: post #10

These guys have suddenly gained a lot of respect in my eyes.

The old bait'n'switch at work ;) Do something a bit bad, get some publicity, then apologize profusely!

Somebody's taken their Apple™ Marketing Training Course.

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#24

Post by kirubakaran »

axod wrote: post #13
kirubakaran wrote: post #10

These guys have suddenly gained a lot of respect in my eyes.

The old bait'n'switch at work ;) Do something a bit bad, get some publicity, then apologize profusely!

I hope it is not that... That would kinda ruin my faith in humanity.

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#25

Post by attack_forgotpw »

johnrob wrote: post #17

I'd just like to mention that, if YC clones use the same application forms, it does make life easier for the applicants...

That's what I assumed what they were going for. Actually, I fully support this approach.

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#26

Post by lux »

pg wrote: post #12
lux wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. I doubt PG and co were losing sleep over a copied application form ;) They're probably watching their competition with much interest. It's not like there's room for only one after all.

The only thing I really worry about is that competitors will use artificial deadlines to panic founders into taking offers from them before they've interviewed with us. 100% of the clones make decisions before we even do interviews, probably not by coincidence. Last year when they made offers to groups that had also been invited to interviews with us, they tried to pressure them into accepting before they'd heard fro…

That does seem nasty. Although from their perspective it makes a twisted sense that since they can't compete with YC on benefits to the startup groups, at least they can pressure them into accepting, and not lose out on the investment opportunity for themselves. But that just says that at the root of it, they have themselves and not the startup's best interests in mind.

Of course everyone has their own interests in mind, but what seems to make YC's self-interest compatible with a founder's self-interest is the degree of freedom afforded the founder. As you said in one of your essays, investors can often suffocate a startup by not allowing enough freedom, which isn't in either of their best interest.

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#27

Post by brlewis »

pg wrote: post #9

This was nice of them. It didn't bother us too much. We were indignant the first time someone copied our application form, but at least these guys admitted it.

Additionally, the obsolete question(s) on their application (no longer present on YC applications) were not their fault. A bug has been filed with y2combinator: http://y2combinator.com/

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#28

Post by okeumeni »

pg wrote: post #18
nikiscevak wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul, why do you call the firms clones? Aren't you a clone of a seed stage incubator? I absolutely love what you do but to say that there are clones in the investment world (where there is zero scale) is a weird way of looking at the world. You probably have enough money to fund every good idea in each intake but you certainly don't have the time to spread out across those ideas. So if you have inspired more capital…

I was calling them clones because that's what other people were calling them. They are, though. All we have in common with seed stage incubators is investing at the seed stage. What these guys have in common with us is a whole list of distinctive things: investing in multiple startups simultaneously, taking about 6%, using an application form instead of accepting business plans, making founders move to where we are,…

This question 12 was copied from YC application as well

>12. Why would your project be hard for someone else to duplicate?

It clearly illustrate the apparent problem YC will face in the future, I think you should think of something to avoid complete duplicate. From my view I think the value of YC is in its network and Knowhow, any founder will recognize that.

As it's getting harder and harder to even speak to you guys the temptation for founders to go the other way will even be stronger. I'm sure you can come up with something.

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#29

Post by freax »

pg wrote: post #12
lux wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very true. I doubt PG and co were losing sleep over a copied application form ;) They're probably watching their competition with much interest. It's not like there's room for only one after all.

The only thing I really worry about is that competitors will use artificial deadlines to panic founders into taking offers from them before they've interviewed with us. 100% of the clones make decisions before we even do interviews, probably not by coincidence. Last year when they made offers to groups that had also been invited to interviews with us, they tried to pressure them into accepting before they'd heard fro…

> Last year when they made offers to groups that had also been invited to interviews with us, they tried to pressure them into accepting before they'd heard from us. I assume they'll do that again. That makes me mad, I admit. It seems such a nasty thing to do to a group of young founders.

Wait a minute, aren't you the guy who gives them 5 minutes to accept once you make your offer?

If they did their interviews/acceptance AFTER you, it would be the same situation with YOU pressuring founders before they'd heard back from anyone else!

Pot. Kettle. If you really care about the founders then you all need to get your schedules together so founders have the option of choosing from multiple offers. Leave the window open longer. It's pretty easy. Give them the forms and have them mail them back once they decide. Like college acceptance; this is a solved problem.

Re: Sincere Apologies to Paul Graham and the Y Combinator Team (from the Seattle Founder's Co-op)

#30

Post by daniel-cussen »

Makes me think of Techstars...I don't think they're an all-out ripoff. Maybe they just came up with a similar idea before YC started. When they saw YC, they didn't feel they were copycats, but had to adapt to YC's presence. Just a guess.
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