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A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

thestar.com

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Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#61
post #41

This strikes me as a classic separation of buyer interests from vendor interests leading to misaligned incentives. The contractors have no incentive to update their equipment. In fact if this is scientifically proven to be a major solution they should want to avoid this. If the province could incentivize the vendor to pay them more for every year there is no pothole and punish them for every pothole they would totall…

I would argue that lack of adoption is likely a discovery and design problem rather than an economic one. In a free market other people can choose to enter into the contracting business. If I have a leg up on my competition (paving better roads for the same cost) I will eventually out compete people who fail to adapt to the new method. This doesn't happen immediately, but you can't fool everyone forever if there trul…

> I will eventually out compete people who fail to adapt to the new method.

This doesn’t really work for government contractors because the government isn’t even remotely a rational buyer. The government doesn’t generally have the latitude to pick the best value - they are constrained by procedural rules. For example, in the US, 5% of federal small contractor spending must go to minority-owned businesses, regardless of their relative quality. Generally there is a fixed bidding procedure that doesn’t allow for judgements about the quality of the final product. Where the government isn’t constrained by procedural rules, politics will come before rational spending. This argument only really works for privately owned and operated roads that have rational incentives.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#62

I've always wondered why we still have such crappy roads, given that roads are possibly the oldest technology there is, and every civilized place on earth has paved roads, thus making an enormous potential market for a better solution. Either: 1) Most people don't care as much as I do about the bone-jarring, car-ruining potholes that are ubiquitous in every cold climate on earth, and thus aren't willing to spend thei…

I was always under the impression we have crappy roads because of planned obsolescence. Basically we have crappy roads because we need to employ union workers to fix them. So the $50 million we save not fixing crappy roads is basically $50 million out of the union income, which impacts elections. I don't know if this is actually the case, but it seems plausible.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#63
post #41

This strikes me as a classic separation of buyer interests from vendor interests leading to misaligned incentives. The contractors have no incentive to update their equipment. In fact if this is scientifically proven to be a major solution they should want to avoid this. If the province could incentivize the vendor to pay them more for every year there is no pothole and punish them for every pothole they would totall…

I would argue that lack of adoption is likely a discovery and design problem rather than an economic one. In a free market other people can choose to enter into the contracting business. If I have a leg up on my competition (paving better roads for the same cost) I will eventually out compete people who fail to adapt to the new method. This doesn't happen immediately, but you can't fool everyone forever if there trul…

Actually in this case the answer is fairly simple: it's corruption. Most people living in Ontario or Quebec know that the construction industry there is dominated by the mob. You gotta be real careful not to step over the wrong people's feet, especially if you're going after public contracts.

So, suffice to say, there is little real competition because most new competitors get literally threatened for their lives if they try to compete.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#65
post #60
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America refers to The United States of America. Same as we don't refer to Mexico all the time as Estados Unidos Mexicanos. I don't approve of getting upset over turns of phrase online. Principle of charity.

>America refers to The United States of America. Well, that might be true for people living in the US but, and I might be going out on a limb here, it might not be so true for others.

> Well, that might be true for people living in the US but, and I might be going out on a limb here, it might not be so true for others.

And for a comment referencing Florida, is it charitable to apply something for continents to your stated interpretation? Principle of charity says not.

Specifically who refers to America/Americans in English as meaning "People who live on the continents in North and South America"? Lets hear names not an allusion to "others".

I'm only aware of a rather vocal minority of South American students recently getting angry at the term America being attributed to citizens of the USA. But its really no different from my aforementioned Mexico example in Spanish. Their category error is trying to redefine America from its shorteneed form for USA, to some super continent association of "America". But it goes against a lot of existing usage in not only English, but other languages. [1]

I respect that you have a position here, but frankly its a silly way to try to redefine the word America as its been spoken in English for a long time to refer to a super continent of both North and South America.

Example Portuguese, America refers to the USA, and to both Continents, aka like in English have to figure out the context: http://www.wordreference.com/enpt/america

French, pretty much the same, only the continent is generally called out separately as continent américain: http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/america

German, closer to French/English here but separate in that they tend to refer to the "americas" as north middle and south america, which is in many ways more appropo: https://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/america

Japanese, i'm not as qualified with my 3 months of learning japanese to comment on this but given the Kanji in use they're already separated: https://jisho.org/search/america

Etc...

Also are you saying that all of the societies and engineering societies such as The American Society of Engineers should be required to change their name as they don't allow people from Canada, Central America, and South America to join? At a certain point I just can't find this position on the word America to make sense. Its just a weird thing to die by the sword on.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#66
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put water inside the hole, run over it with a car that will put some pressure on it, and it'll fill all those small cracks inside the asphalt. Repeat many times. Also, asphalt isn't solid, it get thinner when the sun is high, deforming every time a car runs over it in the summer. South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida: no freezing during winter and not that hot during summer, but everytime there's…

Just want to point out that it's asphalt, not asfalt. :)

No, it's ashfault. Though, I don't know what he did exactly.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#67
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put water inside the hole, run over it with a car that will put some pressure on it, and it'll fill all those small cracks inside the asphalt. Repeat many times. Also, asphalt isn't solid, it get thinner when the sun is high, deforming every time a car runs over it in the summer. South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida: no freezing during winter and not that hot during summer, but everytime there's…

> South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida Are you calling North America "America", and then go on and call Florida "south America", as if there isn't such a place in the world as South America? I do not approve of this North America-centric view of the world at all.

Look, Florida has this... reputation, okay. So what, maybe the GP was trying to wish it away like the rest of us. Let us have this one okay?

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#68
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put water inside the hole, run over it with a car that will put some pressure on it, and it'll fill all those small cracks inside the asphalt. Repeat many times. Also, asphalt isn't solid, it get thinner when the sun is high, deforming every time a car runs over it in the summer. South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida: no freezing during winter and not that hot during summer, but everytime there's…

> South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida Are you calling North America "America", and then go on and call Florida "south America", as if there isn't such a place in the world as South America? I do not approve of this North America-centric view of the world at all.

They are referring to the region around Argentina.

The southern part of South America, a similar distance from the equator as Florida.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#69
post #65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>America refers to The United States of America. Well, that might be true for people living in the US but, and I might be going out on a limb here, it might not be so true for others.

> Well, that might be true for people living in the US but, and I might be going out on a limb here, it might not be so true for others. And for a comment referencing Florida, is it charitable to apply something for continents to your stated interpretation? Principle of charity says not. Specifically who refers to America/Americans in English as meaning "People who live on the continents in North and South America"?…

Time to diffuse this.

> I respect that you have a position here

Thank you. I appreciate you saying so.

> but frankly its a silly way

Yes, I was being silly. But only because if you bundle South America and North America and then go on to call the south of that super-continent "Florida", well, a globalist such as myself has to object.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#70
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put water inside the hole, run over it with a car that will put some pressure on it, and it'll fill all those small cracks inside the asphalt. Repeat many times. Also, asphalt isn't solid, it get thinner when the sun is high, deforming every time a car runs over it in the summer. South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida: no freezing during winter and not that hot during summer, but everytime there's…

> South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida Are you calling North America "America", and then go on and call Florida "south America", as if there isn't such a place in the world as South America? I do not approve of this North America-centric view of the world at all.

The way I read it, it would be better phrased as:

"In the southern part of South America, more or less equivalent to Florida", probably referring to the southeast side of that continent.

This map indicates that areas of Argentina's, Uruguay's, Paraguay's, and southern Brazil's climates would fit the description of "more or less equivalent to Florida": https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/World_K%...

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