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A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

thestar.com

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Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#41

Post by pg_bot »

brianbreslin wrote: post #32

This strikes me as a classic separation of buyer interests from vendor interests leading to misaligned incentives. The contractors have no incentive to update their equipment. In fact if this is scientifically proven to be a major solution they should want to avoid this. If the province could incentivize the vendor to pay them more for every year there is no pothole and punish them for every pothole they would totall…

I would argue that lack of adoption is likely a discovery and design problem rather than an economic one. In a free market other people can choose to enter into the contracting business. If I have a leg up on my competition (paving better roads for the same cost) I will eventually out compete people who fail to adapt to the new method. This doesn't happen immediately, but you can't fool everyone forever if there truly is a better way of operating.

This technology likely has not been adopted due to difficulty and expense of manufacturing a robust machine and lack of marketing. How many people even knew this solution existed? What is the measurable benefit to paving roads this way? How much does the machine cost vs traditional roller method? All of this work is expensive and there isn't a guarantee of success. While the hypothesis seems reasonable you have to do all the math/science to figure out if this truly is cost effective. Ideas are great, execution is hard.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#42

Post by brianbreslin »

pg_bot wrote: post #41
brianbreslin wrote: post #32

This strikes me as a classic separation of buyer interests from vendor interests leading to misaligned incentives. The contractors have no incentive to update their equipment. In fact if this is scientifically proven to be a major solution they should want to avoid this. If the province could incentivize the vendor to pay them more for every year there is no pothole and punish them for every pothole they would totall…

I would argue that lack of adoption is likely a discovery and design problem rather than an economic one. In a free market other people can choose to enter into the contracting business. If I have a leg up on my competition (paving better roads for the same cost) I will eventually out compete people who fail to adapt to the new method. This doesn't happen immediately, but you can't fool everyone forever if there trul…

Great points. We don't know if he is manufacturing these pavers or licensing his tech to others. We also don't know how much more his are than the regular Komatsu or john deere ones. What if the vendors buy the existing companies because they provide superior service?

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#43

Post by jonny_eh »

zentiggr wrote: post #24

> Nichols said the AMIR “has great potential” to extend the life of roads, and “save significant taxpayer dollars.” In 2016, an MTO analysis found that the province would save $50 million annually if roads on the MTOs highways could last even one year longer. And there you go... goes against the contractors' interests to use more efficient means, so this compactor's use will have to be mandated by city governments wh…

If the researcher was more entrepreneurial he could have started a competing road paving business. He may have made a lot of money doing it. I suspect he was too busy researching other stuff though.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#44

Post by balthasar »

coldtea wrote: post #36
yousir wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida Are you calling North America "America", and then go on and call Florida "south America", as if there isn't such a place in the world as South America? I do not approve of this North America-centric view of the world at all.

> Are you calling North America "America", and then go on and call Florida "south America", as if there isn't such a place in the world as South America? Depending on the geography class you took, and where, there might not be a "South America". Some countries just call the whole continent America: Most North Americans are taught that there are 7 continents: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Eur…

A Eurocentric viewpoint to combine South and North America. Its very obviously two continents from a geographical and cultural point of view.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#45

Post by sowbug »

If self-driving cars start to catch on, it seems that the standards for roads must improve. There are some roads in my area that could be an excellent Turing test. If you follow what the lane markers are telling you to do, you die and are probably a robot. If you ignore the markers and survive, you are probably human.

I'd rather increase road standards and accelerate the evolution of self-driving technology than require the development of technology that is capable of driving on today's terrible roads. I know this is not a binary choice -- realistically, both would happen. But I don't think anyone's even talking about better roads for self-driving cars. If even just major roads had to be maintained to a minimally machine-readable standard, it would be a good thing for drivers -- whether human or machine.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#46

Post by giarc »

jonny_eh wrote: post #43
zentiggr wrote: post #24

> Nichols said the AMIR “has great potential” to extend the life of roads, and “save significant taxpayer dollars.” In 2016, an MTO analysis found that the province would save $50 million annually if roads on the MTOs highways could last even one year longer. And there you go... goes against the contractors' interests to use more efficient means, so this compactor's use will have to be mandated by city governments wh…

If the researcher was more entrepreneurial he could have started a competing road paving business. He may have made a lot of money doing it. I suspect he was too busy researching other stuff though.

That's a license play not a "I'm going to start a paving business" play.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#47

Post by haldean »

cmontella wrote: post #4
throwawaylalala wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have potholes in Florida. No freezing.

But we don't really have potholes in CA, at least not the quantity and quality that I experienced living in PA. It's a minefield there right now, so I would imagine freezing is part of the problem, or at least exacerbates it.

You must have never taken a bike down Market Street :)

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#48

Post by pedasmith »

brianbreslin wrote: post #32

This strikes me as a classic separation of buyer interests from vendor interests leading to misaligned incentives. The contractors have no incentive to update their equipment. In fact if this is scientifically proven to be a major solution they should want to avoid this. If the province could incentivize the vendor to pay them more for every year there is no pothole and punish them for every pothole they would totall…

Or, the town engineer can simply add it in to the contracts. An example from the Project Gutenberg copy of [The Municipal and Sanitary Engineer's Handbook](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/55935/55935-h/55935-h.htm#Pag...), page 35, there's a considerable discussion of how to specify a road paving contract. And later on page 57 or thereabouts there's talk about specifying the machinery needed to break the stones for a roadway (some produce much better road stones than others). And page 163 (about) has a super interesting diversion on how awful most companies are about replacing the road surface after ripping it up:

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#49

Post by gitgreen »

spodek wrote: post #25

> “It’s not my fault it’s not being used, I’ve done everything a researcher can do,” El Halim said. What's wrong with much of traditional education summed up in one sentence.

Researcher != Educator. There are countless researchers in colleges and universities around the world producing things(useful or otherwise) that don't teach a single class and only mentor grad students because they have to.

And as somebody else mentioned he can't force others to use his technology.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#50

Post by [deleted] »

brianbreslin wrote: post #32

This strikes me as a classic separation of buyer interests from vendor interests leading to misaligned incentives. The contractors have no incentive to update their equipment. In fact if this is scientifically proven to be a major solution they should want to avoid this. If the province could incentivize the vendor to pay them more for every year there is no pothole and punish them for every pothole they would totall…

[deleted]
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