Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry, that’s just incorrect. Most value of residential property is in the structure. $/sqft of space is the metric, not the land plot.
The metric is an obsolete simplification, not the actual market.
What Airbnb Did to New York City
231–240 of 240 posts
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#232Manhattan should probably just admit that it's going to become the Venice of America: a playground for tourists and the ultra-rich, with virtually no residents. There's nothing wrong with that. They can tax the hell out of it and use it to fund services in the rest of the city where real people live.
Have you spent any time in Manhattan? It’s more than just Midtown. And the whole idea is smart growth that keeps cities accessible to everyone. So, no, it shouldn’t be left to become a “Venice for the super rich” or whatever.
Why not? Because you like living there?
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#233Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have no problem with anyone down-voting my comment. I would really welcome some substantive critique. I'm offering my perspective of what is going on in NYC in order that it might help someone who is going through something similar, or that it might cause someone to offer a possible plan to make things better. So please, down-vote, but could you then actually offer a critique? I would like to learn why this is grat…
How about this sentence: > they silently declare war on existing tenants by demolishing their homes while they live in them That's nonsense. You're clearly speaking with hyperbole but other people can't argue against hyperbole. You spent the whole paragraph detailing clever ways landlords mess with tenants to get them to leave because the tenants know their rights. Those rights are the problem. The rentee/render rela…
you said, "That's nonsense”. Sadly, I’m afraid it isn’t. Here are some articles that might show you as much:
https://ny.curbed.com/2017/11/17/16670180/rent-regulation-la... http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/bklyn-slumlord... https://ny.curbed.com/2017/8/31/16233332/office-of-tenant-ad... https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20120506/chelsea/chelsea-ho... https://www.amny.com/news/tenant-harassment-brooklyn-1.14746... http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/landlords-haras... https://patch.com/new-york/bed-stuy/landlord-fakes-burglary-... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/27/nyregion/new-york-landlor...
I think 8 articles demonstrates my point, but there are dozens of others.
Thank you, though, that helps me understand. I want engineers and others who think of moving to NYC to at least be prepped for reality, because I was not. While our situation isn’t as bad as the horrifying homelessness in tech cities in California, it is a close second, with problems that date back before the tech boom, and growing homelessness that will sadly soon rival the problems on the west coast. We were speaking about Airbnb in relation to this situation, and I see it as a force that could bring about real legal change through the process of legal sparring that might benefit tenants. It has that power because it threatens the current power. Tenants can’t do that- only huge financial giants can, if they work with tenants. Landlords have a powerful lobby here. The tech boom in NYC is only one of many new pressures on an already failing housing system here. The very long history of landlord tenant relations in NYC can seem like operatic exaggeration to someone who has not lived here as a renter who is doing well but isn't uber-wealthy. I can tell you that the declaration of war from a LL to a tenant is just as often not silent. It isn't subtle, and threatens life and safety. I lived in a rent stabilized building during the upscaling of what used to be a regular, family-oriented residential area of of Brooklyn. That area and many others in Brooklyn became ultra-luxe-hip and glittering faster than I've seen any previous gentrification move here. (Bed-Stuy happened very very quickly but not as fast as my previous neighborhood). And it can't rightly be called "gentrification", because unlike Bed_stuy, the area was too much of a well-maintained destination to begin with. Some of these landlords (mine included) held rent-stabilized properties in this area. When serious repairs were needed over the years, the LL would ignore calls, forcing residents into housing court to get emergency repairs done. In fact, this is often the only method stabilized tenants have of getting relief of any kind in NYC. The first time a tenant does it, they think, "Boy, i must have found a rare, totally insane landlord!” At housing court, they see how many others are dealing with this, and then they talk to friends who have lived in NYC a long time, and begin to read articles on the topic, and eventually realize it isn't all that rare.
These are not slums, mind you, just rent-stabilized buildings- they aren't all ugly on the outside. Many tenants were paying $1500/mo for tiny apartments 7 years ago, so not cheap by any means. The tenants were advanced-degree-bedecked professional architects, lawyers, professors and journalists, and they worked for legit companies like Spotify, Associated Press, NYU, Columbia, Google(gasp!) etc... I lived in such a stabilized building that was sold to a new owner who decided to “renovate” so they could charge “market”. (to give you an idea, the rents went from $1300-$1590 under stabilization to $2500-$4500 when they were done, and these were tiny apartments, the largest of which was a small one bedroom) The tenants were told that the LL was making repairs and that these repairs would last for a month. Well, the process lasted three years until it was shut down by the city after homeowners in the area complained about illegal construction. Eventually, the new owners finished.
Some tenants (who were able) moved out, some of us who could not (due to job responsibilities) stayed, thinking that it would be over soon. Those who stayed were not offered buyouts- they were always told it would only last just another week. Instead, they were subjected to constant water shut-offs, sledgehammers in the apartment above, below and on either side beginning at 6 am, lasting all day and long past the legal time to be doing construction. Dust mitigation laws were not followed and the place was filled with toxic dust and hanging pieces of plastic. Debris was everywhere. At one point and for a couple months, the unit next to mine was missing 3 of its 4 walls, just open to the 4th floor outside air- an open floor that a helicopter could land on. Ceilings fell in on existing tenants, one getting nearly hit on the head with falling brick from a ceiling that opened up while she sat on her toilet. One came home to a wet ceiling that had fallen onto their bed and destroyed it. Holes in floors and walls from the demolition. One was hospitalized with acute bronchial inflammation for several months and another developed a skin rash and repeated eye infections. One slipped on the stair and broke their leg. Finally, the tenants banded together and asked for buyouts after several months of this. There were not enough tenants to collectively hire adequate legal help. The landlord said he was ready for “war” with us. (the entity with billions behind it is the powerful one, and the tenants stand no chance) Eventually, the few remaining tenants got very small “buyouts" (a few thousand and a forgiveness of the rest of the months left in their lease, because...we were still being asked to pay rent!- without heat, without any water, and all of the above) When you go through something like this, you think it’s a crazy exception. In NYC, it has become an epidemic.
And now, the end result of years of this kind of slumlord-in-training gives us many newly minted and experienced market-rate landlords who know exactly what kind of abuse and neglect they can get away with because of the lack of enforcement of the rights of a tenant in the courts. (rights meaning basics, by law: a certificate of occupancy filed, inspections made, an onsite super to handle emergencies, no discrimination, heat, hot water, keys to the apartment, a legal lease, no using of security deposits for personal finance, no unannounced entrance into apartments, no fireworks or crazy parties until 5am during the week, and to get amenities you pay for like parking, a working laundry, a gym, trash removal) I think at $2000+ a month, a tenant should not have to take a LL to court to get a key or to stop a gushing leak. What is driving this? I think LLs who were previously slumlords have now entered the market rate arena. But I think they don’t have the cash flow to hang with the market. In my current, new, market-rate apartment in gentrifying Brooklyn, here are some things the tenants have had to deal with: renters were promised parking spots but no renter is allowed to use the parking lot and it sits completely empty, the certificate of occupancy was not filed and tenants needed to do a collective rent withholding to get him to do it (if this CofO isn’t filed, the city can chain your building and prevent you from entering-- yes with all your stuff in your apartment, including your computer-- for as long as they like until the LL files it- can go on for years, and yes, this happens, traditionally in Soho, but now in Brooklyn), the laundry room often has no working machines, many tenants don’t now have e-keys that would let them into their buildings because they are cheap and have broken but the landlord won’t replace them, recalled fire alarms, ridiculous electric bills of $500+ a month, gushing leaks that go unfixed, mold in common areas due to shoddy plumbing, armed homeless men sleeping in gym all day, parties on roof and in courtyard thrown by and attended by non-residents until 5 am with fireworks... and on and on. And I have friends who report the same in market-rate buildings. Is a six month security deposit and $2000 a month in rent enough to expect basic services? Apparently not in Brooklyn right now. I think this wave of market-rate tenant harassment is new, and word of it will spread eventually. But there have to be a lot of individuals speaking up, like here, on HN and within their communities. People don't like to talk about it. But eventually, with enough people reporting, it will be believed--it might take a while, and that is too bad. I’m glad Airbnb is ready for a fight.
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#234Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have no problem with anyone down-voting my comment. I would really welcome some substantive critique. I'm offering my perspective of what is going on in NYC in order that it might help someone who is going through something similar, or that it might cause someone to offer a possible plan to make things better. So please, down-vote, but could you then actually offer a critique? I would like to learn why this is grat…
How about this sentence: > they silently declare war on existing tenants by demolishing their homes while they live in them That's nonsense. You're clearly speaking with hyperbole but other people can't argue against hyperbole. You spent the whole paragraph detailing clever ways landlords mess with tenants to get them to leave because the tenants know their rights. Those rights are the problem. The rentee/render rela…
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#235Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. AirBNB is a blight on rural areas (I can speak to this because I reside in rural Scotland) where affordable rental properties are simply disappearing from the market. These properties are barely fully booked during the summer months or holiday/peak seasons, and are empty for weeks at a time in the winter and off-seasons. This is such a waste and hugely frustrating for fol…
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can really only speak with experience with regards to Scotland here. The problem isn't that we don't have enough land to build on. The problem is that there are vast tracts of land owned by a few large estates (many of them owned by off-shored companies in the usual Caribbean tax havens) that will never normally be available for sale. The land is wasted and misused for the benefit of a few very rich folks who want…
Do you guys have value based property tax, or is it a situation like California with prop 13? I've heard in the UK you just have council tax, which is more about the cost of providing services than the value of the piece of land. Usually you deal with bad 'land hoarding' with a high enough property tax rate. And if you want to avoid effecting the old and the middle class, you add exemptions for primary residences.
Council Tax - a tax on residential properties. Properties fall into one of eight bands, A to H, where A is the least expensive and H is the most expensive. Your council tax bill is made up of the council tax itself which is the largest portion (goes to the council to pay for schools, libraries, street lights, etc). The remaining portion pays for water and sewerage.
Non Domestic Rates - businesses pay these. Water and sewerage are payable in addition. I don't know the ins and outs of how they're calculated.
Unfortunately land hoarding is an unresolved issue in the UK, there isn't as far as I know any penalty or charge - much of this land has no services or business activity so can't be taxed. There have been suggestions by some UK members of parliament that house builders should be forced into a "use it or lose it", thus far there's not been any official position from the government. I suspect the issue will be swept under the table until the next time the media hoves round and puts this back in the spotlight again.
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How can you, with a straight face, tell me that bullshit? That breaks the site guidelines and you can't do it here, regardless of how wrong someone is. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html .
Sorry. There's a better way that I could have phrased that, but I pretty clearly did not criticize the person or call them names but rather their argument. I know you're a busy guy but maybe could you correct my misunderstanding here? This is absolutely language that I would use face to face with someone.
The fix is simple too: edit it out. Signal/noise ratio goes up and the comment gets better.
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but AirBnB poses a completely different kind of threat. If it's allowed to operate with impunity and turn the entire residential housing market into de-facto hotels, then landlords are going to start to ask why they should put up with tenants acting as their middlemen who reap all of the profit, tenants who are protected by strict and very generous regulations that make eviction and raising the rent difficult in…
Maybe extend the a hassle of tenant law to short term rentals? Or eliminate some of the hassle, if it is unnecessary. But even without any changes, there is only so much of a market for short term rentals. At some point, the market will balance out, so long as supply is not artificially constrained.
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you guys have value based property tax, or is it a situation like California with prop 13? I've heard in the UK you just have council tax, which is more about the cost of providing services than the value of the piece of land. Usually you deal with bad 'land hoarding' with a high enough property tax rate. And if you want to avoid effecting the old and the middle class, you add exemptions for primary residences.
We have two types of taxes: Council Tax - a tax on residential properties. Properties fall into one of eight bands, A to H, where A is the least expensive and H is the most expensive. Your council tax bill is made up of the council tax itself which is the largest portion (goes to the council to pay for schools, libraries, street lights, etc). The remaining portion pays for water and sewerage. Non Domestic Rates - bus…
Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City
#240Driving a car you (and also partially others not owning a car) indirectly pay non market land cost, construction and maintenance costs.
Whereas getting a roof over your head requires directly paying market rates for land, construction and maintenance costs PLUS profit on capital.
In my opinion having a roof over your head is a more fundamental human right than driving around in an vehicle. But obviously those two are related as those unable to afford market rents/house prices have to live in the boondocks and then are forced to use a car.