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A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

thestar.com

11–20 of 113 posts

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have potholes in Florida. No freezing.

But we don't really have potholes in CA, at least not the quantity and quality that I experienced living in PA. It's a minefield there right now, so I would imagine freezing is part of the problem, or at least exacerbates it.

What? I never seen worse road in my life than in LA..

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#12

I've always wondered why we still have such crappy roads, given that roads are possibly the oldest technology there is, and every civilized place on earth has paved roads, thus making an enormous potential market for a better solution. Either: 1) Most people don't care as much as I do about the bone-jarring, car-ruining potholes that are ubiquitous in every cold climate on earth, and thus aren't willing to spend thei…

Well... We have been engineering better roads. Compared to brick or packed earth, asphalt is high tech. New materials and mixes are researched and tried. Some recent roads seem to have lighter finish than traditional blacktop. You are right though, it is a cost vs durability issue.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we don't really have potholes in CA, at least not the quantity and quality that I experienced living in PA. It's a minefield there right now, so I would imagine freezing is part of the problem, or at least exacerbates it.

What? I never seen worse road in my life than in LA..

Is that because in LA you have time to scrutinise in depth a great deal of tarmac? ;)

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#14
post #2

I've always read that road damage was caused by heavy vehicles(semis) which stress fracture the roads, which in turn fill with water, freeze, expand, rinse and repeat. This article seems to imply it's caused by the road design itself, though. Wonder which is true (or both)?

[edit: removed]

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#16

I've always wondered why we still have such crappy roads, given that roads are possibly the oldest technology there is, and every civilized place on earth has paved roads, thus making an enormous potential market for a better solution. Either: 1) Most people don't care as much as I do about the bone-jarring, car-ruining potholes that are ubiquitous in every cold climate on earth, and thus aren't willing to spend thei…

Or (3) the paving companies are happy with planned obsolescence, and the deciding customers are politicians who will move on before the new roads go bad, and won't be criticized anyway for authorizing the same methods everyone else uses. No individual involved has a strong incentive to make things better.

Unless, of course, constituents start making an issue of it with their local representatives :)

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#17
post #14
post #2

I've always read that road damage was caused by heavy vehicles(semis) which stress fracture the roads, which in turn fill with water, freeze, expand, rinse and repeat. This article seems to imply it's caused by the road design itself, though. Wonder which is true (or both)?

[edit: removed]

PA is notoriously bad at coordinating tearing up with other work.

It seems that 1ms after a clean paved road is down, someone in another dept is plotting to tear it up to get at their utility, then hire 2 guys with a shovel to do a very halfassed patch job afterwards, which either is heaved up high or sunk down low. The halfassed patch will become a pothole for the next 10 years of repatching it badly over and over again.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#18
post #17
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[edit: removed]

PA is notoriously bad at coordinating tearing up with other work. It seems that 1ms after a clean paved road is down, someone in another dept is plotting to tear it up to get at their utility, then hire 2 guys with a shovel to do a very halfassed patch job afterwards, which either is heaved up high or sunk down low. The halfassed patch will become a pothole for the next 10 years of repatching it badly over and over a…

PA = Pennsylvania?

There are two seasons in Pennsylvania, winter and construction.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#19

I've always wondered why we still have such crappy roads, given that roads are possibly the oldest technology there is, and every civilized place on earth has paved roads, thus making an enormous potential market for a better solution. Either: 1) Most people don't care as much as I do about the bone-jarring, car-ruining potholes that are ubiquitous in every cold climate on earth, and thus aren't willing to spend thei…

>> I've always wondered why we still have such crappy roads

Reading this story, maybe the major problem is new technology adoption in government, for an infrastructure project, where measuring better performance takes years.

Each of this processes is long, and conservative, and risky and together they multiplies - so it's really hard to innovate here. And i don't think there are good strategies against that.

Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads

#20

I've always wondered why we still have such crappy roads, given that roads are possibly the oldest technology there is, and every civilized place on earth has paved roads, thus making an enormous potential market for a better solution. Either: 1) Most people don't care as much as I do about the bone-jarring, car-ruining potholes that are ubiquitous in every cold climate on earth, and thus aren't willing to spend thei…

> 2) Engineering a better road is simply too hard of an engineering problem, so what we have is the best we can do at the moment. Or equivalently, any better roads we do know how to make are too cost-prohibitive.

This is essentially the case. Asphalt roads as they exist today are basically a really good compromise of all the variables you care about in a road. They are farely durable, are easy to repair, can be laid across various terrains, give good traction, offer a continuous driving surface, shed water farely well, and are realtively cheap. For example cement roads last longer but are not continuous. They have those breaches every few yards that make that obnoxious bump... bump... bump experience. They also have inferior grip.

It's basically the same reason you probably have vinyl windows. Everyone kind of knows they aren't ideal but they are a good compromise of strength, cost and energy efficiency.

You can easily beat asphalt in any one given area but it's hard to do as well across all areas.

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