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Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

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Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#41

Post by ce4 »

hyper_reality wrote: post #7
Jedd wrote: post #2

> De Beers is fighting Chinese lab-grown diamonds And I hope they lose. https://priceonomics.com/post/45768546804/diamonds-are-bulls... (and HN comments on original posting 2013-03-19 -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5403988 )

I also highly recommend Edward Epstein's Atlantic article on this too: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/02/have-yo... One of the best pieces of long-form journalism ever published, without a doubt.

And HN comments from five years ago on that The Atlantic article:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4535611

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#43

Post by dsacco »

pluma wrote: post #37
dsacco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re called fake because they’re artificial, not because they have more flaws. The diamond industry might have once thought it could rely on artificial diamonds being less perfect, but it’s under no such illusion now. I think it’s fair to acknowledge that, even if we don’t like it, many people prefer natural diamonds because they’re natural, not because they believe they’re somehow more “pure.” In other words, I b…

Sure but even "natural" diamonds aren't as rare as they're made out to be. There's an artificial scarcity because De Beers wants to keep the prices up: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07...

I’m well aware of all of that, I was just commenting on the legitimacy of peoples’ preferences with regard to natural versus artificial items.

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#44

Post by pluma »

eadmund wrote: post #27
saagarjha wrote: post #3

> De Beers fights fakes with technology as China’s lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones, since they're 100% pure. Maybe it's time to call lab-grown diamonds "real" and mined ones "fake".

Y'know, I think that the whole diamond hype is nonsense, but I do understand how a stone which was formed over millennia (or more?) and discovered by a miner has more of a story to it that a stone which was grown in a lab by a technician. I've no problem with considering a natural diamond real and a lab-grown one fake, even though they are the same 'stuff.'

Sure but knowing that De Beers artificially inflates the price and that the "natural" diamond market is a major driver of bloodshed and slavery I'd hope that "natural diamonds" are eventually as frowned upon in polite society as "real fur" already is.

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#45

Post by vanderZwan »

dsacco wrote: post #30
saagarjha wrote: post #3

> De Beers fights fakes with technology as China’s lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones, since they're 100% pure. Maybe it's time to call lab-grown diamonds "real" and mined ones "fake".

They’re called fake because they’re artificial, not because they have more flaws. The diamond industry might have once thought it could rely on artificial diamonds being less perfect, but it’s under no such illusion now. I think it’s fair to acknowledge that, even if we don’t like it, many people prefer natural diamonds because they’re natural, not because they believe they’re somehow more “pure.” In other words, I b…

> They’re called fake because they’re artificial, not because they have more flaws (...) give credit to the other side’s point: they have a reasonable and internally consistent argument

The only thing I credit them for is being ruthlessly manipulative. "Fakes" is not a neutral word. It was very specifically chosen for its emotional baggage, similar to "pro-lifer" or "franken-foods". It is an emotional distracting piece of doublespeak and should not be condoned at all as being "reasonable".

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#46

Post by gruez »

>Indeed, even the most experienced diamantaire’s in the world can’t tell the fakes from those extracted from mines when using their naked eye, which is where technology comes in

if they look identical to the naked eye, how can jewelers and debeers justify buying the naturals? are you now buying the diamond for its "history" or "story"? is it like buying "organic" food? or is it purely because it was never about the diamond itself; the diamond was just a representation of how money you sank into your spouse?

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#47

Post by vadimberman »

latchkey wrote: post #19
vadimberman wrote: post #9

About 10 years ago, I had to deal with a vivid bunch of folks from Belgium. Some of them were related to the diamond industry in Antwerp. One just came back from Congo where he got screwed by a local hi-tech crook that managed to fake a diamond using a plain kitchen microwave oven. No idea how authentic his story was, but the microwave fake stuck in my memory.

That made me google and this came up... http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Synthetic-Diam... Edit: cook it real good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWhtkkOYoxo

Wow, so they were telling the truth!

I wonder if the perpetrators googled the recipe...

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#48

Post by ce4 »

cptskippy wrote: post #36
saagarjha wrote: post #3

> De Beers fights fakes with technology as China’s lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones, since they're 100% pure. Maybe it's time to call lab-grown diamonds "real" and mined ones "fake".

It's organic vs synthetic. Not real vs fake. There was a similar problem with Rubies and they detected the fakes by virtue of the fact that they were flawless.

Even if they succeed (edit: with that fake-vs-natural campaign), what if the next step introduced artificial flaws and impurities?

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#49

Post by badosu »

phkahler wrote: post #10
saagarjha wrote: post #3

> De Beers fights fakes with technology as China’s lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones, since they're 100% pure. Maybe it's time to call lab-grown diamonds "real" and mined ones "fake".

>> From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones... Yes, for decades they claimed clarity and purity to be indicators of the highest quality. Now that humans can manufacture them with better specs than nature, they're shifting to claim that "natural" is better. In the end it's a pretty carbon lattice.

Yeah, for them fake means that it's not being artificially inflated by blood and perverse business practices.

It's such bullshit, from the social usage as a token of value for females to the fake perception of value.

I hope they fall hard.

Re: Lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems

#50

Post by zaarn »

dsacco wrote: post #30
saagarjha wrote: post #3

> De Beers fights fakes with technology as China’s lab-grown diamonds threaten viability of the real gems From what I understand, these gems are actually better than natural ones, since they're 100% pure. Maybe it's time to call lab-grown diamonds "real" and mined ones "fake".

They’re called fake because they’re artificial, not because they have more flaws. The diamond industry might have once thought it could rely on artificial diamonds being less perfect, but it’s under no such illusion now. I think it’s fair to acknowledge that, even if we don’t like it, many people prefer natural diamonds because they’re natural, not because they believe they’re somehow more “pure.” In other words, I b…

What makes a diamond "natural"?

IMO it's not much different than deciding to drink "natural water" over simple tap water (though I'm basing this off living near a spring well that supplies my tap water, experiences may vary).

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