Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's really not a charitable representation of the article. When the HN guidelines say: "please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize", it applies to authors as well as commenters. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Well, it is an honest question. And I don't think it is uncharitable at all. The premise of the article is that github does not help with interviews but it doesn't really provide facts to back that up.
Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
61–70 of 111 posts
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not entirely true. Candidates have to meet employers halfway. Employer's have a limited amount of time and money too, why should they waste those resources having to mine for someone's skill level when there's plenty of candidates out there that will display that on some online site.
> Candidates have to meet employers halfway. Perhaps in a recession, but in the current market, the employer must meet the candidate. That's how supply and demand works. To confirm (as an example), check out the last HN Who's Hiring [1], and compare to the next one. I assure you, most of the positions go unfilled because demand is exceeding supply. A company can either make their filters more reasonable, pay more, or…
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Candidates have to meet employers halfway. Perhaps in a recession, but in the current market, the employer must meet the candidate. That's how supply and demand works. To confirm (as an example), check out the last HN Who's Hiring [1], and compare to the next one. I assure you, most of the positions go unfilled because demand is exceeding supply. A company can either make their filters more reasonable, pay more, or…
Sometimes an employer has more than one slot to fill, or the business is growing and gets another slot to fill. I may post the same thing next month, but that doesn't mean we haven't hired. There is an ongoing need.
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#64I am just tabbing over from looking at a github profile of a potential hire. It was somewhat useful as a way of understanding this person's technology style. I saw PHP, game dev, JSON. I saw that he does do OSS stuff, though not much. I saw that he can write a decent readme. That's the kind of thing a hiring manager gets from a github profile. It's not a one-dimensional test like how many checkins does the dev have.
GitHub will not even remotely tell you that, though. There are tons of open source projects that are not hosted on GitHub. If you, say, contribute to the Linux kernel, or to Firefox, or perhaps Xfce, nothing will show up on your GitHub profile to give you "credit" for that.
I agree with another poster that GH can be useful to disqualify candidates (say if they've posted something they've plagiarized as their own), and you might find interesting things on a candidate's profile that increases your impression of them, but it's absolutely useless for comparing candidates or getting a full picture of what they've worked on in public.
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#65Case in point, the candidates I interviewed -- if they had any public Github projects: (1) had maybe one or two projects of their own that were public. (2) They were personal projects of varying levels of "quality", i.e. not their day job. (3) They were the only developer/committer and new commits were somewhat rare. For the most part, just the existence of a profile with some projects was a plus. Most candidates didn't give me a way to see that they could actually write software (fizz/buzz?) -- though there are ways to solve that without resorting to white-board or in-interview programming.
I started using GitHub and "external work" as an interview technique after an experience with one of my best hires. This was a candidate not unlike others that had a pretty dead profile, but there was one project that showed code quality and thought that far exceeded "the typical". It was clearly "That One Project(tm)"; his baby. The code quality was quite good, it had documentation and it had thought put to its design[0]. It had zero stars or forks, but it was obvious this was a tool he wrote for himself and really cared about. His interview started out very badly because he was nervous, but the project saved him. Mainly because I started wondering if he actually wrote the code in that project (because he failed to answer some pretty basic code design questions), I pulled up his project and started asking him specific questions about his code. He went from nervous to excited[1] and was suddenly able to explain things that he had a difficult time with when they were presented simply as abstract concepts.
I used to facilitate many technical interviews, but it's been a little while since I've done one due to a new job/different company, however, I think the method I use is still the one I'd go to. The technique I used after this gentleman was to call the candidate a week in advance of the interview and ask if they have anything public, code wise (blog posts, SO/Github/Gitlab/Bitbucket profiles), that they can point me at or if they could provide some samples[2]. I always explicitly state "This doesn't need to be your best work, or even terribly great code, it just gives me a starting point to discuss development practices" and I recommend they pick something they've done recently since "any code we've written more than 6-months ago might as well have been written by someone else" The technical interviews would then, generally, be that candidate explaining their code, the choices they made, why they made them and what they think improvements would be in order of priority. That has worked really well for me and beats the daylights out of any paper/pencil, whiteboard or even "code this on this laptop while I look over your shoulder"[3]. Assuming you successfully disarm the candidate with the "we're not judging your code (!)" preamble, I've found that people are far more comfortable (and most legitimately enjoy) talking about things they've written -- even critiquing them[4].
[0] In this case, a unit tests covering the right parts of code, documentation, build instructions, logical layout/design -- he cared about this code and it gave a really good insight into
[1] Given his performance in the interview, I would have expected this person to be introverted and not a terribly motivated programmer... goes to show how terrible interviews are at judging people -- this guy ended up being the guy everyone else on the team looks to -- he was passionate in a job that, frankly, wasn't the sexiest programming job.
[2] This last point, to be clear, I expect to never receive proprietary samples. It did happen, once, and I didn't think this was something I had to actually state, but I wouldn't have hired someone who would share code they had agreed to protect since they'd be agreeing to the same thing working on the team they'd be going to.
[3] The difference between a great developer and a great developer who gets anxious during interviews is that the latter might be a little introverted/not good at interviewing -- a personality trait that I've found to be common and for every job I've done interviews for -- not a negative (and can just as much be a positive) for the work I was assisting in hiring for. One of the hardest working people I know -- a guy I'd work with on literally anything because he'll make up for any deficiencies with sheer will and hard work -- has such anxiety in interviews that he actually forgot his middle name in an interview (not completely, he just spaced -- hard -- my boss hired him anyway on my strong recommendation).
[4] A small tip: Complimenting the work is an easy way to get things started smoothly -- it doesn't need to be phony; there's usually some way to point out a few positive things about the work. Start there, ask questions in a manner that simply states a desire to understand the code more, and let things roll from there.
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#66GitHub profiles are incredibly useful for college grads, bootcampers, and self-taught devs that typically can't speak of professional accomplishments. As your professional accomplishments increase, the value of GitHub profiles (for most) as a marketing tool diminishes dramatically, but can still be helpful. For developers at any level, repos are a good conversation piece for interviews. The interviewer can ask why ch…
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#67Having a portfolio to show what your capable of is a great way to set yourself apart. I don't think anyone is expecting you to have developed Linux from scratch. But something is better than nothing. Which do you think is more likely to get an interview, someone with several source GitHub projects or someone that says "all my work was closed sourced" and has nothing to show.
Having founded three startups now (2x acquired), most of the best engineers I have ever worked with have a noticeably more active Github/Bitbucket/Gitlab portfolio than the average. In my experience, great engineers have public proof (open source, a self produced product, book, etc) of their craft vs nothing at all.
Now to be clear, just because someone has an active Github, or a book, or whatever doesn't mean you should hire on the spot. But should be someone you'd prioritize over someone that is seemingly too lazy to do any related extra circular activity.
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#68I am currently working on building a tool [1] that helps developers build profiles that articulate very clearly both what they bring to a team and what they are looking for in a next job. We're approaching this as a data problem, but unlike many dark recruiting tools, we think it's important for the developer to be completely in control of the information that makes it into their profile.
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#69Most people realize that "Github isn't your resume" unless you are paid to work on open source. Forking repos, submitting the occasional pull request or a random side project don't provide much signal compared the code you've written and the people you've worked with at past companies. I am currently working on building a tool [1] that helps developers build profiles that articulate very clearly both what they bring…
Re: Why GitHub Won't Help with Hiring
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's really not a charitable representation of the article. When the HN guidelines say: "please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize", it applies to authors as well as commenters. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Well, it is an honest question. And I don't think it is uncharitable at all. The premise of the article is that github does not help with interviews but it doesn't really provide facts to back that up.