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All I need is a programmer

codeclimber.blogspot.com

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Re: All I need is a programmer

#3

Post by ssharp »

This same story seems to get rehashed weekly here. Without insight into what the business is, you can't really judge how important a programmer is. For some, it's paramount. For others, it's not as important.

Interestingly enough, a lot of people get stuck in some sort of weird trap: Their idea is worth so much to them that they won't give up equity yet their idea is worth so little that they won't invest in it.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#5

Post by fendale »

I work for a big company where they believe in the cog-in-a-machine idea so much they actually implemented a process they coined 'the factory process' with the emphasis on being able to swap in team of developers at the drop of a hat.

Noone had read the mythical man month, or Spolsky's 'Hitting the highlights' (or named something similar to that).

I can testify first hand that treating software engineer like cogs is a road to slippage, bugs and all the good engineers leaving!

Re: All I need is a programmer

#6

Post by wheels »

Got the same thing on Sunday. Usually I find the easiest thing to say, in cases where I'm pretty certain there's not going to be common ground, to recommend a third party who they're not friends with and won't assume that it'll be a favor.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#8

Post by mechanical_fish »

Again, it's worth remembering that even if everyone in the world understood exactly how valuable, difficult, and expensive programming can be, these conversations would still happen all the time. It's just how negotiation works: Programmer offers to work for X, customer pretends to be poor and offers Y where Y Admittedly, when you offer to work for X and your "friend" responds by coming right out and saying that they expected the work for free, so forget it... they're not being very polite or very smart. A better response would be "Gosh, I hadn't realized it was more than an hour or two of work, and my budget is only $75. Thanks for setting me straight -- I'll have to rethink this. Can you recommend any $10-an-hour grade school students?" And then you put on your Helpless Newb Face and hope that your programmer friend takes pity on you and offers to work at half wages, or offers you some free advice on how to set up a cheap Wordpress site, or something.

As sure as the sun shines, people -- especially your "friends" -- are never going to offer what you're actually worth. (For one thing, they have little way of knowing. Given that most software engineers can barely estimate how long their projects will take or how much the result is worth, how can you expect inexperienced folks to do it?) You just have to do what this guy did: Ask for what you think you're worth, and be gracious but firm if they say something stupid or insulting in return.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#9

Post by Hexstream »

"The reason for this, I think, is that Lisp allows you to be so productive that a single person can get things done without having to work together with anyone else, and so Lisp programmers never develop the social skills needed to work effectively as a member of a team."

That's IT! I just decided to quit Lisp and program in C from now on. And all this time I wondered why I have no social skills... But now everything will be fine!!!

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