Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation • Hacker News Board

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#41

Post by eropple » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

nickdandakis wrote: post #39

eropple wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what they are doing. Here's how normal people look at something like this. It's not "oh, but they're just facilitating ," it's "why is there cryptocoin crap in this thing we use for work?". Then it's "Ed, why is this thing you recommended and spoke so highly about doing this? Are they cryptomining on our computers now?". Then, even after an explanation, they're probably still suspicious and probably righ…

There's nothing wrong with reverting a recommendation. Sounds like you have a great explanation for why you would revert your own recommendation, as well. Just like every other startup in the world, Keybase doesn't "owe" anything to you and might make business decisions that affect your own.

I'm sorry, maybe I misspoke--is there something in my post that suggests that they can't do it? I'm saying that them doing it sucks, and explaining why. And, yes, of course I can change my recommendation--what would make you think that I'm not aware of that?

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#42

Post by ordinaryradical » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 4:48 PM UTC

staplers wrote: post #22

malgorithms wrote: post #2

Blog author from Keybase here. Always game for a Hacker News discussion! There's a subtle point I cut from my post for simplicity reasons, but which feels perfect for HN. I've been convinced by Mazières and the Stellar team that the classic "blockchain" works great for native tokens but is extremely dangerous for anything with counterparty redemption. For example, imagine the shitshow after a truly contentious fork,…

I've been convinced by Mazières and the Stellar team As someone who's been in the cryptocurrency space for a long time I can guarantee you got swindled. Countless investors I have seen move to centralized "blockchains" due to buzzword powerpoint presentations and floating_nodes.jpg bootstrap landing pages. This is no different than what current financial institutions do other than a new UI.

I don’t understand this comment. It doesn’t seem to address any of the key technical points behind the Stellar project as it is actively used today, but instead tries to imply that the foundation is some group of fly-by-night scammers that have won over keybase by nothing more than a twinkle in their eye.

My impression was that Lumens seemed to be solving one of the legitimate problems of the world—the inefficiency of the SWIFT system for cross-border transactions—and appears to have a viable model for doing so.

I don’t see how whether or not it’s centralized makes it a swindle?

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#43

Post by desireco42 » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

I was just thinking this morning how keybase would be useful as a tie-in for crypto identity on blockchain, when this is desirable. This is fantastic news.

Just confirms that Stellar is great platform.

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#44

Post by fiatjaf » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #25

jeffthemaximum wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keybase is also an identity tool, and I see value in having proof of identity when making crypto transactions.

That's great--but I don't care about what value you see when making cryptocurrency transactions. I care about the security and uptime of my services, which is why we started using Keybase in the first place. If they wanted to build some whateverthing that leverages Keybase for identity? Sure, go nuts, I think it's silly but it's not my time. But injecting it "into their apps"? No. These are tools for production, for…

Nobody said they'll be injecting anything in their apps, where did you read that?

I know a bit about how Stellar works, and I can't imagine any kind of software they could "inject" in their apps besides perhaps a way to post a Stellar address into the current merkle-tree they host and a way to fetch that through an API. How is that worse than having a Bitcoin address optionally includable in the same way?

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#45

Post by eropple » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

baker_miller wrote: post #16

eropple wrote: post #8

Last time Keybase came up I made sure to post about how great using it is and that I am super-duper enthused about Keybase. I entreated 'malgorithms to let me give him money for Keybase. And I have recommended Keybase to a ton of people and a bunch of my clients, using it in a bunch of workflows. Now those people and those clients are going to have cryptocoin bullshit stuffed into a work tool? Thanks, Chris. You're d…

Harsh. Nothing about this post implies a monetization play. The whole point of Keybase is identity verification. How is it not a natural evolution for them to explore trusted cross-border, multicurrency transactions? That's not to say you even have to use a payments feature if it's integrated into the primary Keybase application. You don't have to verify ownership of a domain or register a Bitcoin address, but both o…

Maybe it would be helpful to consider what it means to have a crypto wallet (because that's the likely endpoint here, otherwise why would they have to partner with Stellar?) on production servers. Consider explaining to a client that, no, it's totally fine, it doesn't do anything. I promise. Doable, I'll grant you. Consider explaining that to an auditor. No, nobody can ever compromise this, nobody could use this for shenanigans, it just doesn't do anything!

An auditor who did not bug his or her eyes out at that and ask some very hard questions would be doing a bad job as an auditor.

It is harsh--but, one, I thought they were legitimately better than this, and two, it's a problem. Keybase wants to be infrastructure, and people have different needs for infrastructure. That's an argument for different tools, not a multi-tool that makes its use in some situations problematic.

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#46

Post by diakritikal » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

Given that stellar/lumen is a fork of ripple/xrp, and ripple/xrp seem to have a massive head start with what 100+? bank and payment providers already on board - are stellar/lumen not just competing head to head with Ripple with essentially the same technology but with a handicap of being behind in terms of development and not having an in-use production network and settlement solution?

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#47

Post by fiatjaf » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

SteveJS wrote: post #38

How does this change the threat model for using keybase? It would seem to increase the target value of compromising the client. Is that immediate impression wrong?

Yes. I don't believe Keybase will not store Stellar private keys in any way, this would be horrible.

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#48

Post by eropple » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:04 PM UTC

fiatjaf wrote: post #44

eropple wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great--but I don't care about what value you see when making cryptocurrency transactions. I care about the security and uptime of my services, which is why we started using Keybase in the first place. If they wanted to build some whateverthing that leverages Keybase for identity? Sure, go nuts, I think it's silly but it's not my time. But injecting it "into their apps"? No. These are tools for production, for…

Nobody said they'll be injecting anything in their apps, where did you read that? I know a bit about how Stellar works, and I can't imagine any kind of software they could "inject" in their apps besides perhaps a way to post a Stellar address into the current merkle-tree they host and a way to fetch that through an API. How is that worse than having a Bitcoin address optionally includable in the same way?

"All while integrating certain Stellar features directly into Keybase's apps."

The rest of their announcement, I legit don't care about. This is the deal-breaker here. You don't need a Big Announcement or to hire more people to add a Stellar address for verification. I know a bit about Stellar as well (granted, you probably know more) but this reads to me as a let's-be-a-wallet game.

And this is worse than having Bitcoin addresses: active functionality versus passive functionality. Difference of kind, yeah?

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#49

Post by beaner » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

eropple wrote: post #45

baker_miller wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harsh. Nothing about this post implies a monetization play. The whole point of Keybase is identity verification. How is it not a natural evolution for them to explore trusted cross-border, multicurrency transactions? That's not to say you even have to use a payments feature if it's integrated into the primary Keybase application. You don't have to verify ownership of a domain or register a Bitcoin address, but both o…

Maybe it would be helpful to consider what it means to have a crypto wallet (because that's the likely endpoint here, otherwise why would they have to partner with Stellar?) on production servers. Consider explaining to a client that, no, it's totally fine, it doesn't do anything. I promise. Doable, I'll grant you. Consider explaining that to an auditor . No, nobody can ever compromise this, nobody could use this for…

If this is really a huge deal for you, it sounds like you're just not the target audience. I'm a keybase user and I think this is really cool.

Re: Keybase is now supported by the Stellar Development Foundation

#50

Post by diakritikal » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

ordinaryradical wrote: post #42

staplers wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been convinced by Mazières and the Stellar team As someone who's been in the cryptocurrency space for a long time I can guarantee you got swindled. Countless investors I have seen move to centralized "blockchains" due to buzzword powerpoint presentations and floating_nodes.jpg bootstrap landing pages. This is no different than what current financial institutions do other than a new UI.

I don’t understand this comment. It doesn’t seem to address any of the key technical points behind the Stellar project as it is actively used today, but instead tries to imply that the foundation is some group of fly-by-night scammers that have won over keybase by nothing more than a twinkle in their eye. My impression was that Lumens seemed to be solving one of the legitimate problems of the world—the inefficiency o…

It's possible more than one system could replace SWIFT, but why would it be Stellar/Lumens who are still in the gate with their fork when Ripple/XRP seem to be already round the first bend with seemingly very large momentum in terms of interest, trials and actual production use by financial institutions?