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Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

economist.com

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Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#151

Post by pishpash »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #98
pishpash wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is a big bully with its Monroe Doctrine, dictator or not. This is China's version.

Yes, and it is problematic when the US does it, and it will be problematic when China does it. One country doing terrible things intervening in other countries is not an excuse for other countries to get involved and do the same thing.

I made no recommendation about doing what others do, just pointing out some facts, why did everyone trip out defensively? Maybe it's the guilty conscience speaking.

And it is guilty conscience because you know that those problematic actions netted the aggressor (the most successful ones at any rate) plenty of benefits that many people still enjoy to this day.

I don't think the world should go down this road, and there are such things as international norms. That's why when one country ignores them continually and also gains from doing so, it becomes very disadvantageous to refrain and tempting to emulate. In that regard it absolutely matters to talk about the fact that "the US did it" and still does in a another way. Same goes for China or Russia.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#152

Post by pishpash »

Slansitartop wrote: post #118
pishpash wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US is a big bully with its Monroe Doctrine, dictator or not. This is China's version.

> US is a big bully with its Monroe Doctrine, dictator or not. This is China's version. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine > The Monroe Doctrine was a United States policy of opposing European colonialism in the Americas beginning in 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to take control of any independent state in North or South America would be viewed as "the manifestation of an unfrien…

One of the proclaimed reasons for which Japan invaded Asia in the Second World War was to oppose European nations (Japan included Russia and the US in this) colonizing Asia. I am sure to Japan that didn't (and if you probe Japanese deeply, still doesn't) sound very bully-like. Yet, we know what happened.

Let's not beat around the bush. This is a rising country's way of saying, I pwn my backyard (so you can't pwn it) and I will use my might to defend it. Of course the one saying that doesn't sound like a bully to himself.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#153

Post by pishpash »

ahtu123 wrote: post #11

I have a feeling 10 years from now Trump will be funny blip on the radar of how crazy the '10s were while Asia will be quite meaningfully transformed. I wish this was getting as much attention as BREAKING NEWS: Trump/staffer did something dumb. The (soon plausibly) richest and most populous country in the world will soon have a dictator. That's a bit scary.

Trump will be a blip provided a Congress willing to check his powers is elected to office, and doesn't itself go down the same path. It might be one election away from stacking of the courts and all that jazz. Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#154

Post by pishpash »

ahtu123 wrote: post #49
mannykannot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While fussing over every misstep of the administration is a distraction, this is an unfortunate time to have a US President who seems uninterested in global politics.

For sure. Russia and China have their most keen global political leaders in a generation and the US is infighting.

The US is infighting because the electorate wants to be infighting. When the citizenry is so sheltered and content to know nothing about the world this is what happens.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#155

Post by Dolores12 »

darawk wrote: post #104
Dolores12 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history China has always been ruled by dynasties. I don't see any specific reason why it should change under Xi. It is a wet dream of USA to bring instability to China to weaken rising dragon.

Who cares about history? Europe was ruled by monarchies until it switched to democracy, for the better. China should do the same.

What make you think that being under monarchy Europe would yield different result? China is a great example of being a communist state where people's life is getting better and better. Political stability is a key to economic growth.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#156

Post by Dolores12 »

Slansitartop wrote: post #105
Dolores12 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go check https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasties_in_Chinese_history China has always been ruled by dynasties. I don't see any specific reason why it should change under Xi. It is a wet dream of USA to bring instability to China to weaken rising dragon.

> China has always been ruled by dynasties. The exact same thing was true of the West until about 100 years ago.

China is a way older than Europe. After all this damage Europe did to China(think Opium wars) i am happy to see China found its OWN way to success. And being one of the greatest economy in the world, why would it even listen to the West?

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#157

Post by Slansitartop »

pishpash wrote: post #152
Slansitartop wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US is a big bully with its Monroe Doctrine, dictator or not. This is China's version. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine > The Monroe Doctrine was a United States policy of opposing European colonialism in the Americas beginning in 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to take control of any independent state in North or South America would be viewed as "the manifestation of an unfrien…

One of the proclaimed reasons for which Japan invaded Asia in the Second World War was to oppose European nations (Japan included Russia and the US in this) colonizing Asia. I am sure to Japan that didn't (and if you probe Japanese deeply, still doesn't) sound very bully-like. Yet, we know what happened. Let's not beat around the bush. This is a rising country's way of saying, I pwn my backyard (so you can't pwn it)…

> One of the proclaimed reasons for which Japan invaded Asia in the Second World War was to oppose European nations

Boy, what a false equivalence.

More from Wikipedia:

> The reaction in Latin America to the Monroe Doctrine was generally favorable but in some occasions suspicious. John Crow, author of The Epic of Latin America, states, "Simón Bolívar himself, still in the midst of his last campaign against the Spaniards, Santander in Colombia, Rivadavia in Argentina, Victoria in Mexico—leaders of the emancipation movement everywhere—received Monroe's words with sincerest gratitude".

This is an important point. The Monroe Doctrine wasn't a pretext to invasion and domination, it was actually assistance against those things. The people protected by it welcomed it.

Fast forward to the present day: Vietnam just hosted a US aircraft carrier, in a very symbolic move. It's not looking for China's help to drive the US out. China is in fact upping the ante in territorial disputes with its neighbors. China looks like a lot more like Japan in the 1930s than the US in the 1830s.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#158

Post by darawk »

Dolores12 wrote: post #155
darawk wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about history? Europe was ruled by monarchies until it switched to democracy, for the better. China should do the same.

What make you think that being under monarchy Europe would yield different result? China is a great example of being a communist state where people's life is getting better and better. Political stability is a key to economic growth.

China is only growing economically to the extent that it's relaxed its socialist, authoritarian policies. As soon as it reasserts them, all that growth will go away. The fact that people's lives are improving is not sufficient evidence that the government is benevolent.

There is only one thing that reliably predicts human behavior: incentives. The incentives of the communist party are much more weakly aligned with the welfare of their people than those in democratic countries. It's as simple as that.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#159

Post by dragonwriter »

Slansitartop wrote: post #157
pishpash wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the proclaimed reasons for which Japan invaded Asia in the Second World War was to oppose European nations (Japan included Russia and the US in this) colonizing Asia. I am sure to Japan that didn't (and if you probe Japanese deeply, still doesn't) sound very bully-like. Yet, we know what happened. Let's not beat around the bush. This is a rising country's way of saying, I pwn my backyard (so you can't pwn it)…

> One of the proclaimed reasons for which Japan invaded Asia in the Second World War was to oppose European nations Boy, what a false equivalence. More from Wikipedia: > The reaction in Latin America to the Monroe Doctrine was generally favorable but in some occasions suspicious. John Crow, author of The Epic of Latin America, states, "Simón Bolívar himself, still in the midst of his last campaign against the Spaniar…

> This is an important point. The Monroe Doctrine wasn't a pretext to invasion and domination, it was actually assistance against those things. The people protected by it welcomed it.

Nah, it was just empty posturing at the time.

Once the US had the capacity to put teeth into it (which wasn't for a long time), it became a pretext for invasion and domination, though.

Re: Xi Jinping decides to abolish presidential term limits

#160

Post by Slansitartop »

pishpash wrote: post #150
adventured wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lot worse than that. The US has been a superpower for ~75 years. In that time, the US hasn't been annexing territory in Latin America (and yes, the US is guilty of repeatedly meddling in the affairs of nations in Latin America, and it deserves all the flack it gets for it). The Monroe Doctrine for example has never included a drive to conquer Latin America and annex it. That doctrine is about driving out Europ…

Not the best examples. The US entertained annexing Canada and did annex large swathes of Mexico (not in the last 75 years, true, if you want to arbitrarily draw the line there). China has plenty of stable agreed borders with weak and troubled neighbors. You have your rose colored views but they are somewhat laughable.

> The US ... did annex large swathes of Mexico

Here's some context for that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Texas

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