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Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

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Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#121

Post by Nashooo »

mdgrech23 wrote: post #12
crazygringo wrote: post #4

My $0.02, having been a PM for many years: Read Cracking the PM Interview [1] (for an overview of the job, not the actual interview tips) and The Lean Startup [2] (for general philosophy). 35 is a great age for a PM, especially since PM's often start elsewhere -- maturity is a plus here. I'd say there are 3 main ways into it -- as an engineer, who starts to do PM-type stuff on a team where there's no PM. As a designe…

> Also, if you want to be a PM then you'd better enjoy meetings, slides, people, and communicating & convincing all day long, day-in day-out I transitioned from dev to architect. This statement is so true, even more so for PMs.

Any tips for a dev aspiring to transition to architect?

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#122

Post by xab9 »

neofrommatrix wrote: post #62
xab9 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say it's none of my business, but may I ask you why would you like to change?

I cannot ask for advice and counter with a "none of your business" when asked questions. That's not how any of this works. Thank you for your question. I can probably write an essay on this, but here's a TLDR version. I do like coding, and will definitely continue working on my side projects. Although programming pays quite well, I'm not sure of the long term payoffs of continuing as a programmer (unless you are one…

This is cool, thanks! I myself am mostly okay with dev but I think communication is very important no matter where you are in the process.

Sometimes I feel that I can't influence the product even though I care for it - but then I grow bitter and start a job seeking cycle.

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#123

Post by evolve2k »

crazygringo wrote: post #4

My $0.02, having been a PM for many years: Read Cracking the PM Interview [1] (for an overview of the job, not the actual interview tips) and The Lean Startup [2] (for general philosophy). 35 is a great age for a PM, especially since PM's often start elsewhere -- maturity is a plus here. I'd say there are 3 main ways into it -- as an engineer, who starts to do PM-type stuff on a team where there's no PM. As a designe…

Can anyone recommend additional books on being a highly effective PM and managing ALL THE THINGS. Thx

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#124

Post by ryanyde »

It's certainly possible. I PM at Gigster and have seen some BE Engineers switch to being PM's on the network--some successfully and some unsuccessfully.

Joining our network and seeing how it's done on a project by project basis is not a bad start :-).

My view on PM'ing is very similar to what makes a good 'salesperson' or 'consultant'. There are certainly similar traits among large swathes of successful people, but there's no 'rule'. PM'ing a software framework is very different from PM'ing a social network, which should be obvious.

From a backend dev perspective, you should have some perspectives in looking at an overall system and fully understanding what will be required. You'll have empathy for the work when requirements change. That will help.

Of course building the skills that MBA's,'brought up' PM's, and people who started in sales / marketing will take a while to brush up on. Product School can help.

However, the best advice I'd say about PM'ing is starting to build things and get feedback from users. If you don't enjoy or cant: 1) Decide a problem to solve, along with a goal 2) Figure out a path to solve that problem and 3) Iterate and learn based on feedback

PM'ing probably will not be a fulfilling career choice.

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#125

Post by pm81218 »

PM-turned-software-engineer here. I was in various PM roles for almost 10 years.

35 is fine. In my experience, college graduates don't often land PM roles due to the diverse set of skills required to perform the job well. They move into them after proving capable in other roles. Thus, PMs skew older where I've worked -- 23-year-old PMs are less common than 23-year-old engineers. While I think this is probably try across the board, this is probably also changing, though.

Try to switch at your current company if you can. It's easier and people at your company already know you're a valuable employee. They know you're learning but are probably worth it in the end. Try to pick up product management related tasks from a PM you work with or ask your manager for help in getting some of that experience. If your manager isn't helpful, then pick up tasks from a trusted PM colleague that you can highlight on your resume when you apply for PM jobs at another company.

Yes, lots of books to read and schools don't hurt. But product management is most often an aspirational function. Product management practically never gets executed the way it's written about and learning how to change or cope with these deviations is key (e.g. sales running the roadmap). I could write a book about this, but suffice it to say that on-the-job experience is way more valuable. So try to get some as soon as you can.

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#126

Post by WheelsAtLarge »

Before you go through all the trouble of getting certs. I advise that you ask for help from your PM. Maybe you can even take charge of a project.

One thing you quickly discover is that the pressure is pretty intense. You get squeezed from management above and the people you manage below. Yet, you have little power to push back.

Certs will teach you the mechanics of project management but managing the human to human relationships is way harder and you'll get little help there from certs. I've known PM's that are experts at the relationship part and are happy doing what they do. I've known others that try to push the mechanics and end up making everyone and themselves miserable.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#127

Post by itsevrgrn »

Techonomicon wrote: post #43

I feel many comments here are confusing "Product" Management with "Project" Management. Many describing being a "people person" which isn't (in my eyes) a needed trait for a product manager, but is for a project manager. There are obviously social aspects of being a product manager, but much of it has to do with relaying what's in your head moreso than trying to manage people day-to-day. To me, what matters for the O…

Both of these roles sound super interesting to me, but I am only a freshman undergrad (studying marketing or finance? & computer science).

I really hate the business school in all honesty. Initially I thought it would be full of people who are passionate about finding what a consumer wants and building it. The reality is that many of these students just want to be suites in either consulting, investment banking, or corporate roles. I am super passionate about building great products and working with A players, but I don't want to be another "pointy haired manager."

Wondering if any of you have advice on how to break into the UX research roles with hope of becoming a project manager or product manager further down the road.

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#128

Post by blabla_blublu »

This is a great thread! I am in a similar position currently - I am working as a software engineer in a domain that I like, but I am really into product design, strategy in general. This lead me down an exploratory path and I got lucky with an offer from a tiny startup to join them as the first PM. The experience seems to be promising and I think I'll learn a lot.

However, I have some concerns such as the loss of pay (no more RSUs), the nasty commute (1 hour each way minimum as opposed to 20 minutes currently), the work life harmony going for a toss. Anyone out here (who made a switch to the PM space in smaller companies) willing to share their experiences ? Would love to know!

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#129

Post by Techonomicon »

itsevrgrn wrote: post #127
Techonomicon wrote: post #43

I feel many comments here are confusing "Product" Management with "Project" Management. Many describing being a "people person" which isn't (in my eyes) a needed trait for a product manager, but is for a project manager. There are obviously social aspects of being a product manager, but much of it has to do with relaying what's in your head moreso than trying to manage people day-to-day. To me, what matters for the O…

Both of these roles sound super interesting to me, but I am only a freshman undergrad (studying marketing or finance? & computer science). I really hate the business school in all honesty. Initially I thought it would be full of people who are passionate about finding what a consumer wants and building it. The reality is that many of these students just want to be suites in either consulting, investment banking, or c…

UX is a tough one, I'm still unsure what the magic bullet there is as I personally believe a lot of itself is generally handwaivy. It's one of those things that you just have some magical touch with (which approximately no one has so don't be foolish and believe that you're the one), or something you gain over time through trial and error.

It's probably hard to get into a UX role that doesn't involve UI as well. So one side of that is being able to actual design UI, and build out some random "product" ideas with the various current tools available which allow you to design UI + make prototypes that seem real (something like Sketch, there's tons of others). This can be helpful for getting some experience together on your own time which hopefully could get you a junior UI/UX somewhere.

The other side of things is being a UI driven developer and try to get in as some sort of frontend UI/UX engineer which deals more with making user experience better vs fleshing out the business logic / internals. These sorts of jobs tend to exist more at larger shops / enterprises than smaller ones.

The third side (yea, this one has three sides) is to just try and get a foot in the door as a junior PM and grow from there. I honestly don't believe this is the best route as I think all it does is breed "pointy haired managers".

I really believe you need some experience in a space before being able to be a good "* Manager" of any kind, whether that be project, product, engineering, or otherwise.

Re: Ask HN: Move to product management at 35?

#130

Post by panjaro »

I'm currently going through the transition. One I've learned one fact - People, People, People. It's all about people skills. People with emotions, people with attitude, people with ego and some great people as well. And you'd learn, you have to rely on things that aren't in your control. Age doesn't matter. What matters is how mature you are. Depends on whether you can smile and move ahead even when you know its not what you think is right.
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